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Dave as a genuine question: IK you are not wanting to unban everyone, but, would you consider unbanning some people if they apologized to you correctly?

> he could do a lot to help the game
Lmao even

Once again, bugs cannot change, has never showed any capability for change and is an all around net negative for the game. This isn't a cheated once 8 years ago incident. This is a repetitive abuse of the game and players lasting near a decade. He's so stupid and ego-driven he somehow made a name for himself despite being barred from entry since the moment he made his account. He was never apart of the Atwar community. He was a cancerous tumor attached to the underbelly of this game for years, refusing to walk away.

If Sphinx, a known toxic competitive player, endorser of laissez faire moderation and free markets is telling you, you're wrong…..you're wrong.

Dave may not have gotten everything right. But he is right on bugs and osix. That's the last I have to say.

Написао Dave, 09.04.2025 at 14:58

Написао Waffelo, 09.04.2025 at 19:48

Neither of you are going to like what I have to say here but you both need to hear it.

In my view there is a spectrum of people that have been banned, some I think are redeemable but need to reconcile with Dave first and others who just shouldn't be here because they went too far.

Waffel, while you have some valid points and I can sympathise with your experience of being banned, you need to see that the way you're defending yourself also reads as further attacks on Dave. You guys clearly don't like each other, but the way you're going about picking apart what Dave did or didnt do and the way he sees the world isn't doing you or him or the community any favours, its self masturbatory, its unnecessary, - its an itch you keep scratching and the rash is only getting worse. I know you can type for hours on end, you should be a fucking lawyer if you're not one btw because you clearly have an accute sense of injustice... But here and now, its not helping anyone. Have you tried to see things from his perspective?

and Dave, this is your game, its your call what you do, but there is a case to be made for putting some of these guys on parole. I don't like Waffel either, he's irritating as fuck and he knows it, but he is a prime example of someone that should be placed on a prolonged mute as opposed to a perma ban, why? Because he's on the side of the game, he wants it to do well and continue, he just has a cracked way of showing it. If he didnt he wouldnt be bombarding you with these messages in the forums.

In my opinion, if I was in Daves shoes I probably would have banned Waffel too because he can't help himself, he's like a dog with a bone.. if he feels crossed, he won't let go. But after a while I would also probably get over it and be willling to bring him back with some kind of prolonged mute in effect and I wouldnt unmute him until I received an apology, because ultimately I see some of myself in him and I know it would take a lot for me to apologise too. I think the same can be said of others that were banned, but thats not for me to decide.

I'm not going to add any more to this post, all this ban drama is tiring and think we all need to move on. I meant what I said about Dave keeping the lights on, we should all show a little gratitude. I welcome others to do the same.

Написао Dave, 08.04.2025 at 18:11

Написао Weisser Wolf, 07.04.2025 at 22:39

Dave,

I think it goes without saying at this point—everyone has already shared their thoughts on the current state of the game: the players you've refused to unban, the slow pace of improvements, and the steady decline in activity. However, I'd like to comment on one particular aspect.

A true leader knows when to acknowledge a mistake. And if you're looking for examples, some of the most respected CEOs—like those of Microsoft or Apple—have publicly admitted when they've made the wrong call. That's not weakness, that's humility. I say this with the utmost respect: I hope you take a moment to genuinely reflect.

Even users often labeled as toxic or disruptive—like Kaska—have recognized that the mass banning of players has gone too far. And honestly, if someone like me, who used to be known for toxic behavior in duels and clan wars, can admit it was time to grow up and stop playing the victim, I believe change is possible. I had to take a "forced vacation" myself, and I now recognize how counterproductive that attitude was.

As Kaska suggested, why not simply unban those users but mute them from everything except private messages? What real harm could they do? If you give them a second chance, many of them might return—and with them, activity could increase again. We could even experiment with fresh concepts: maybe an "ancient season," or a rotation of never-before-seen maps. As we all know, atWar has near-infinite creative potential.

And if time or resources are the problem, subcontracting is always an option. Outsourcing some work to experienced developers—say, from Mexico or India—could go a long way. Believe me, as a business and process consultant, I say this from experience.

As many have said, an event where you make Waffel super admin or I don't know, something innovative while simply AIing the game or fixing bugs in the maps. And on the topic of Lion nuking the discord, please Dave, it's not like it was the end of the world. I bet Croat or someone else who had the power to do that over a little tantrum could have done it.

It's time to move into the future, even games that were abandonware are reviving thanks to the community, you need a real community manager for the game and maybe, dedicate yourself to the technical, marketing and business issues of the game and believe me many people in the community would be happy to help as it was in that era when Alois and not a certain bug abuser was the head supporter.

I know I'm repeating things others have already pointed out, but I still felt it was worth adding my two cents to the conversation.

I agree that a good leader admits when he is wrong and I like to believe I have that ability too. I've already stated in this thread that I made a mistake wasting too much time talking with the community instead of just focusing on what I knew needed to be done. But as regards removing the people who needed to be removed, I remain convinced it was the right decision.

I hear so many people say "give them a second chance", "maybe they've changed", or sentiments to this effect. Do you not realize, we already did that? Many of the troublemakers who ultimately got banned or deleted in 2021 were people who had ALREADY been through rounds of bans, appeals, and second chances. People must have short memory spans, but I still remember. So if you wonder why I'm unwilling to unban again, it's because we already tried that and it didn't work. I have no interest in going down that road again.

I am also surprised that for as much as people talk about the "good ol' days of atWar", the community, the friendships.... all these things people look back fondly at.... and yet they seem to have no problem with Lion having destroyed a big part of that history forever. It's paradoxical to me that anyone would miss the past and yet defend Lion destroying that same past.

Most AW players didn't even know a discord server existed. I don't think it destroyed a big part of AW history

Написао El Serbio, 10.04.2025 at 08:45

...

Just a few months ago, he made a video about an exploit and shared them with pretty much everyone. The video is now private, but honestly, if he had good intentions, he could've just told us directly.
As much as I would support the unban or 2nd chances for most people, he would be one of those where I'm not sure if it would be the right thing to do.
For everyone else, it would make me happy seeing some more old faces around, but it's not my call at the end of the day.

At last, I don't think I have to repeat what so many have already said, but Tiger29's and Domo's posts represent what I'm thinking more or less.

Написао YourSphinx, 08.04.2025 at 09:31

Написао El Serbio, 08.04.2025 at 07:24

As for xBugs—we played years ago when he was around rank 7. I'm not his biggest fan because his ego might actually be bigger than yours, but I can't deny he's smart and could do a lot to help the game. Did he cheat? Yes. Would he do it again if unbanned? I honestly don't think so. I don't even know if we'd end up playing again, but you get the point.

You lost all credibility when you said bugs should be unbanned. That unhinged freak has been perma banned for many years before Dave and should be forever.

"The enemy of my enemy is not my friend"

Any idea/movement bugs attaches himself to is wildly unserious. It's time you understand that.

He is not smart. He cannot create, only destroy.

He can hardly be considered an atwar player, he cheated as a rank 2 in 2017 and has been perma banned since, with short stints of playing under an alt. He is not a part of this community, drop it.

I don't agree with you.. I cheated too when i was young(on other games). Will i do it again? No.
He was permabanned 8 YEARS AGO.. People grow up and changes, you know? Except Mauzer.

Написао Tiger29, 09.04.2025 at 20:39

The more I watch this play out the more I realize the whole problem is everyone cares about this game, but is too mad at each other to reach a peaceful solution. I wish everyone could agree so change could happen. The game is dying, and we are all here arguing instead of seeking peace. We are holding old grudges against people from 4 years ago Guys let's forgive each other and move on and enjoy this game.

Yea I've been playing this game since 2017, sad to see how many players I used to play with banned off the platform or just completely inactive

The more I watch this play out the more I realize the whole problem is everyone cares about this game, but is too mad at each other to reach a peaceful solution. I wish everyone could agree so change could happen. The game is dying, and we are all here arguing instead of seeking peace. We are holding old grudges against people from 4 years ago Guys let's forgive each other and move on and enjoy this game.

I love at war cant we all be friends UwU

Написао YourSphinx, 09.04.2025 at 19:39

The issue is there's no single goal here, the constant moving of goal posts from the players, no congruent plan. Players need to understand they can cry as hard as they want and there's some things that will not change and rightly so.

And from Dave's end I guess, he hasn't concretely specified on who's banned forever and who's not, there seems to be some level of wiggle room for some and none for others, which is understandable.

I have no dog in this fight anymore.

I just hope both sides have fun.

This is right aswell. I just wished some sort of agreement could be made between both sides, however as of right now it doesn't seem possible. I want some players to come back to comp, thats all man.

The issue is there's no single goal here, the constant moving of goal posts from the players, no congruent plan. Players need to understand they can cry as hard as they want and there's some things that will not change and rightly so.

And from Dave's end I guess, he hasn't concretely specified on who's banned forever and who's not, there seems to be some level of wiggle room for some and none for others, which is understandable.

I have no dog in this fight anymore.

I just hope both sides have fun.

Написао ImUlvilating, 09.04.2025 at 15:47

Both sides think they're too good to change, truly a sad thing to see. On the one hand the banned players can't stop being obsessed and toxic towards Dave. And Dave is hardstuck on the idea that unbanning is wrong. I'm not saynig either side is right but if only there were a solution that both could apoligize and both could work together to please both sides, I could definitely work towards mending a deal or helping in any way.

this

Back to my earlier post, I still believe that people cannot be inherently good or bad they are simply products of their surroundings, this doesn't excuse anyone for having what humans consider morally wrong by the general population but rather provides vital context on what makes someone act the way they do. However I will say there are probably people who act worse on their emotions and people who choose to be bad.

I'm particularly interested in learning more about Orthodox Christianity, which was mentioned earlier in this thread. I admittedly don't know much about it, but what little I've heard and read sounds appealing to me. I've found there is a Greek Orthodox church near where I live, which I want to go visit but have not done so yet.

Lately I've also been considering the idea that maybe "good" and "evil" are forces that exist in the universe and that people are merely "lenses" (for lack of a better word) through which good or evil can flow? That maybe those people we consider "evil" are just more highly susceptible to allowing the evil force to flow through them? (I haven't fully thought this out...)

I went through an experience recently with someone who I genuinely thought was a "good" person, who turned out to actually be a very evil person. Not using the word "evil" lightly, I mean really one of the select few I've encountered in my life who I would actually apply the word "evil" to. It makes me think that evil sometimes masquerades as good in order to deceive you, which makes things even more confusing and difficult to figure out. But I digress. (This experience I'm referring to has no connection with atWar so please don't read too much into it.)

Both sides think they're too good to change, truly a sad thing to see. On the one hand the banned players can't stop being obsessed and toxic towards Dave. And Dave is hardstuck on the idea that unbanning is wrong. I'm not saynig either side is right but if only there were a solution that both could apoligize and both could work together to please both sides, I could definitely work towards mending a deal or helping in any way.

Crazy to see people I once spent nights playing with last logged in 10 years ago. Great times. I'll never forget Afterwind and the friendships it gave me. I wish I could relive those days, but it's impossible. The game has changed, so has the internet and our lives.

Написао Dave, 09.04.2025 at 14:58

Написао Lev Davidovic, 09.04.2025 at 09:09

Dave man, i can't quite crack your code of behaviour. You keep the game running despite it dying, and i thank you for it. You even keep coming here anwering (almost) all the requests and comments (even if focusing on some parts and ignoring others). I love that, i interpret those as acts of a person who care, but in the same time the content of your comments seems to always state the same thing: "4 or more years have passed - not gonna change my mind - all those people will remain out of the game - all the discussion is (has been, will be) useless - game gonna keep dying deal with it".
It almost looks like you are a pure soul captive of your own ego, desperatly wrapped between trying to do the interest of the game (and the community) and standing still proving a point old years, blindly believing that relinquishing it will harm whats left of the game and the community.
I would love to help that pure soul, one way or an other (kill whats left of this game, perhaps sell it, or try save it), i just dont know how to.

There are people here who are mad at me because I'm not giving them what they want. According to them I'm an evil narcissist. So that's one possibility to explain my code of behavior.

Let me propose another possibility. I'm not going to tell you what to think -- all I ask is you consider the following, and then decide for yourself which explanation of my behavior best fits reality.

Maybe I'm not an egoist, or a narcissist, or even a bad guy at all.
Maybe I do care about atWar, and feel obligated to protect it / preserve it.
Maybe I really do believe that removing those people from the community was a net positive for atWar.
Maybe I reject the argument to "unban", not because I'm not hearing what people are saying, but because I believe it would be a mistake.
Maybe I think that less activity is preferable to bad activity.
Maybe I think we are actually better off this way.

I choose to answer you this because you seem like somebody who is rational and open to listening. Take from that what you will.

what happened?

Написао Lev Davidovic, 09.04.2025 at 09:09

Dave man, i can't quite crack your code of behaviour. You keep the game running despite it dying, and i thank you for it. You even keep coming here anwering (almost) all the requests and comments (even if focusing on some parts and ignoring others). I love that, i interpret those as acts of a person who care, but in the same time the content of your comments seems to always state the same thing: "4 or more years have passed - not gonna change my mind - all those people will remain out of the game - all the discussion is (has been, will be) useless - game gonna keep dying deal with it".
It almost looks like you are a pure soul captive of your own ego, desperatly wrapped between trying to do the interest of the game (and the community) and standing still proving a point old years, blindly believing that relinquishing it will harm whats left of the game and the community.
I would love to help that pure soul, one way or an other (kill whats left of this game, perhaps sell it, or try save it), i just dont know how to.

There are people here who are mad at me because I'm not giving them what they want. According to them I'm an evil narcissist. So that's one possibility to explain my code of behavior.

Let me propose another possibility. I'm not going to tell you what to think -- all I ask is you consider the following, and then decide for yourself which explanation of my behavior best fits reality.

Maybe I'm not an egoist, or a narcissist, or even a bad guy at all.
Maybe I do care about atWar, and feel obligated to protect it / preserve it.
Maybe I really do believe that removing those people from the community was a net positive for atWar.
Maybe I reject the argument to "unban", not because I'm not hearing what people are saying, but because I believe it would be a mistake.
Maybe I think that less activity is preferable to bad activity.
Maybe I think we are actually better off this way.

I choose to answer you this because you seem like somebody who is rational and open to listening. Take from that what you will.

Dave man, i can't quite crack your code of behaviour. You keep the game running despite it dying, and i thank you for it. You even keep coming here anwering (almost) all the requests and comments (even if focusing on some parts and ignoring others). I love that, i interpret those as acts of a person who care, but in the same time the content of your comments seems to always state the same thing: "4 or more years have passed - not gonna change my mind - all those people will remain out of the game - all the discussion is (has been, will be) useless - game gonna keep dying deal with it".
It almost looks like you are a pure soul captive of your own ego, desperatly wrapped between trying to do the interest of the game (and the community) and standing still proving a point old years, blindly believing that relinquishing it will harm whats left of the game and the community.
I would love to help that pure soul, one way or an other (kill whats left of this game, perhaps sell it, or try save it), i just dont know how to.

Написао Dave, 08.04.2025 at 22:28

They need to apologize to me (and really to atWar as a whole), not the other way around.

This needs to be highlighted.

If you or you know of someone that was banned that wants to be here, I would encourage you to try and reach out to Dave privately and ask for a fresh start. AW is full of passionate people and passions flare up. The trick is understanding that most of us have the same interests here. We all want AW to continue and do well.

Написао Skittzophrenic, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

I've been on this game for over 13 years. I've made a lot of friends and a lot of enemies... and I miss both.

Preach!
Long time no see Skkitz

Написао Dave, 09.04.2025 at 01:15

Написао 77TENGRI99, 09.04.2025 at 00:37

Me and jugers randomly got email from aw "heres your account id and password " this was few months later we left the game

Did it look like this?



If so, that's just an automated message that happens when some wiseguy puts your username here:



It definitely wasn't from me.

ok g my bad i didnt think that my id password would randomly appear in my mail like that. we thought it was u doing it

It's a good game. I hope you are wrong.

@Tengri
Once upon a time I was called to cw but did not remember my password. A clanmate of mine knew for some reason to tell me in instance "it's ***** how can you not remember such an easy password?'. And that's AtWar in itswhole glory for you.

Написао 77TENGRI99, 09.04.2025 at 00:37

Me and jugers randomly got email from aw "heres your account id and password " this was few months later we left the game

Did it look like this?



If so, that's just an automated message that happens when some wiseguy puts your username here:



It definitely wasn't from me.

Написао Dave, 08.04.2025 at 22:28

Написао 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

They expect dave to apologize or sell aw. He restored some deleted accs and sent simple email with id and password but they didnt want to come back

I don't know where you're getting your information Tengri. I have not restored any accounts or sent any emails. They need to apologize to me (and really to atWar as a whole), not the other way around.

Написао 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

Most banned or deleted people i know dont even want to come back.

Good! That's the whole point.

Me and jugers randomly got email from aw "heres your account id and password " this was few months later we left the game

Написао 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

They expect dave to apologize or sell aw. He restored some deleted accs and sent simple email with id and password but they didnt want to come back

I don't know where you're getting your information Tengri. I have not restored any accounts or sent any emails. They need to apologize to me (and really to atWar as a whole), not the other way around.

Написао 77TENGRI99, 08.04.2025 at 22:21

Most banned or deleted people i know dont even want to come back.

Good! That's the whole point.

I guess it's time for my 2 cents

I've been on this game for over 13 years. I've made a lot of friends and a lot of enemies... and I miss both.
Just bring these people back, I wasn't really here during the purge but I did want to say something but never did because I didn't want my account to be banned.
I don't think it should matter if people shouldn't be back here, the game is literally unplayable most of the day. I barely come back because there is no one here really. I miss playing scenarios.
Banning people has consequences and they are showing right now. People deserve chances. Just mute them for an hour if they rile up. But don't reban them.

Most banned or deleted people i know dont even want to come back. They expect dave to apologize or sell aw. He restored some deleted accs and sent simple email with id and password but they didnt want to come back

Написао Metyu, 08.04.2025 at 18:15

Hey, congrats on winning the game, mate!

Yeah I didn't like the feeling. Betting the faith of a 8 hours game over an unlikely turnblock is far more exciting.

Right now I hope there is now WWII player reading this and screaming "FUCKING ROi!!!!"

Написао the equalizer, 08.04.2025 at 14:29

Would it be against the rules for me to tell OP to kill himself? because he should

He actually has tried but has failed numerous times due to the fact his weight destroys the noose