Постови у којима сам цитиран

Написао Ghostface, 13.07.2021 at 12:07

Ok I will start with Goce Delcev first , i think you are just reading the information that is about him on the wiki page where it is incomplete and very wrong about many things.


There was no Macedonian free state back then but like I said Bulgaria was a free state and of course they had their interest and to exert their influence they opened Bulgarian schools in the then still Turkish-held Macedonia and its normal he would study in a Bulgarian school because what were the alternatives ? Turkish or Greek school ?
If I was living in that time period id probably study in a Bulgarian school too , even today there are many people and friends I know that study in Bulgaria because of the economic
incentives or other things their schools are better in but they would never say they are Bulgarian. That is silly logic. If I study in an American University does that make me American?
He proclaimed himself Bulgarian but screamed Macedonia for the Macedonians? There is no such thing as Macedonian Bulgarian you are either one or the other.
Where are these regional Bulgarians today if they existed? How come it was full of them in modern day Macedonian republic and Greek region of Macedonia but they disappeared?
Even if he did look up to those people he might've admired their fight , determination and bravery not their ethnicity or nationality.
He saw how bad life was under Turkish occupation and how life was in a free state like Bulgaria and he admired that.

Petar Pop Arsov protested in the school he was studying in Thessaloniki to replace the Bulgarian language they were studying with a local Macedonian one.
This is why he was expelled from there. He then went to study in Belgrade and was expelled from there for being anti-Serbian then went to Sofia to finish school.
There he was one of the founders of YMLA which wanted Macedonian language to be represented more in these Bulgarian schools in occupied Macedonia.
No surprise here , the Bulgarian government banned both the association and the magazine they had on the grounds of separatism.
BRCC was its own organization and IMRO wasn't originally called BRCC because IMRO was founded 1893. And if you aren't talking about BRCC but rather
you mean BPMARO ( Bulgarian People's Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Organization) , it was founded after IMRO was founded and pretty short lived.
Reality is after the failed 1903 uprising which managed to create a free Macedonian republic but was very short lived , the organization at times was hijacked by the
Bulgarian government to spread influence as so were many other things used when a country is spreading its own propaganda.
Even today Bulgarian government denies existence of Macedonian nation and Macedonian language , they propagate that we are actually Bulgarians but at the same time
they hate us and put a veto against us for joining the EU. They do this in 21th century as they did in 20th and 19th century as well.
These revolutionaries openly fought for a Macedonian nation , wanted Macedonian language in schools and all the while scream Macedonia for the bloody Macedonians
yet are labeled as Bulgarians by their government. What more should they have done to prove they were Macedonian? Tattoo a sun on their forehead ?
Many Macedonians have Bulgarian papers nowadays because Bulgaria is in the EU and it makes it easier to work in the EU because of that and the Bulgarian government also
openly recently claimed that these were also actually Bulgarians and uses this also as a political tool.
There are many other discrepancies in your comments but this comment is already big as it is so I will leave it like this.

But I will only ask what were all these whatever you want to call them Macedonians , Bulgarians or Slavs doing in todays Greek Macedonia region and around Thessalonica?
Its like as if that region was filled with majority of those people and not original Macedonian Greeks or whatever you call them like so many Greeks claim ?

For starters none of your images work so I can't comment on them.
Gotse Delchev really did support a Macedonian state, in the sense of supporting a multiethnic federation of people where each of its citizens would be "Macedonian" but also "Bulgarian", "Greek", "Turk" or any other ethnicity at the same time. Just as in Iran you can be Azeri, Kurdish, Baloch or any other nationality and still be Iranian, or how in Russia you can be Tatar, Buryat or Karelian and still be Russian. That did not mean he didn't see himself as Bulgarian. Petar Poparsov didn't protest for "the Bulgarian language to be replaced with a Macedonian one", he protested "the east Bulgarian dialect to be replaced with a Macedonian Bulgarian one". He and his fellows considered the two dialects of the same language. The magazine in which he published, called Loza, referred to "Macedonians" as Bulgarians, and its goals were for said Macedonian Bulgarians and their dialect to be better represented in Bulgarian literature. In general to your question as to why these people were campaigning for an independent Macedonia instead of unification with Bulgaria, aside from the fact that they did often campaign for that (military support for Bulgaria during the wars of the time), you need look no further than the words of Hristo Tatarchev, the original founder and leader of the group, born in a town near modern Albania, who in his memoirs said:

"We talked a long time about the goal of this organization and at last we fixed it on the autonomy of Macedonia with the priority of the Bulgarian element. We couldn't accept the position for "direct joining to Bulgaria" because we saw that it would meet big difficulties by reason of confrontation of the Great powers and the aspirations of the neighbouring small countries and Turkey. It passed through our thoughts that one autonomous Macedonia could easier unite with Bulgaria subsequently and if the worst comes to the worst, that it could play a role as a unifying link of a federation of Balkan people. The region of Adrianople, as far as I remember, didn't take part in our program, and I think the idea to add it to autonomous Macedonia came later."

In short he is saying the only reason they were hesitant to campaign for a Bulgarian Macedonia was because the great powers and other Balkan nations would get triggered. Their long-term goal was unification with Bulgaria and Macedonian independence was just a stopgap to it. Again this is no wild theory of mine, it's taken directly from the memoirs of the group's founder. As for why Bulgarians were in Macedonia, they had immigrated there during the Byzantine and Ottoman times, so there was a strong Bulgarian presence, but they were most certainly not a majority, in 1903 the demographics of the region looked like this:
https://prnt.sc/1avhy5u
With a narrow Muslim plurality (practically a Greek plurality since "Muslims" aren't an ethnicity) in in the Thessalonica area and a narrow Muslim plurality (practically Bulgarian plurality since "Muslims" aren't an ethnicity") in Serres and a clear Muslim majority in Drama, overall no group holding a majority in the region. And this is exactly what a "Macedonian Bulgarian" is, a Bulgarian living in Macedonia, and part of a subgroup of Bulgarians who slightly differed from Bulgarians of Bulgaria proper but were Bulgarians regardless. Just as Macedonian Greeks are referred as such despite being 100% Greek, or Cypriot Greeks, or Israeli Arabs, or Pakistani Pashtun, or Kaifeng Jews, or any other group of people named [Region] [Ethnicity]. what kind of logic is "you can be either one or the other"?

So after countering your selective reading where you ignored any direct proof of the revolutionaries' Bulgarian identity and only sniped the parts that could be twisted to your favour, you will still claim that these people were not Bulgarians, because of course you will, the bitter truth that your nation is a hundred years old and the result of Serbian-Yugoslav propaganda is too hard to swallow, better cling to fake glories of other nations to justify your national pride.

Написао Ghostface, 09.07.2021 at 06:53

Also Zephy just saying that IMRO was Bulgarian tells you how uninformed he is and probably not even serious about this topic.
(IMRO literally means Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization and their goal was to create a free and independent Macedonian state , not Bulgarian.)
Goce Delchev , one of the best known revolutionaries of that time died 1903 and rests in Skopje not in Sofia do you know why?
Because when he died he wanted his grave to be in the capital of a Macedonian nation if it ever formed.
He promoted the "Macedonia for the Macedonians" idea as well as many of the organizations members , while Bulgaria already was a free state by this point
and if they were really Bulgarians they would promote seceding the region to Bulgaria and founding an organization for free west Bulgaria or something similar.

k then, explain Hristo Tatarchev quote.
Or the fact that IMRO was originally called Bulgarian Macedonian-Adrianople Revolutionary Committees
Or the fact that it fought at the side of the Bulgarian army during both Balkan Wars
Or the fact that the organisation disbanded itself during the 1915-1918 Bulgarian annexation of Macedonia only for it to be reestablished in 1920 after Bulgaria lost the land again.
Or the fact that it used schools of the Bulgarian Exarchate as part of its network
Or the letter that Dame Gruev and Boris Sarafov sent to the Bulgarian government during the Ilinden uprising, that said "The general staff considers for its duty to pay attention of the honoured Bulgarian government to the catastrophic consequences for Bulgarian nation, in case the government doesn't fulfill its duty toward its homogeneous brothers here in an impressible and energetic way, imposed by the circumstances and the danger, which threaten Bulgarian fatherland today."
Or Dimitar Vlahov's quote, that said "Firstly the revolutionary organization began to work among the Bulgarian population, even not among the whole of it, but only among this part, which participated in the Bulgarian Exarchate. IMRO treated suspiciously to the Bulgarians, which participated in other churches, as the Greek Patriarchate, the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church. As to the revolutionary activity among the other nationalities as Turks, Albanians, Greeks and Vlahs, such question did not exist for the founders of the organization. These other nationalities were for IMRO foreign people... Later, when the leaders of IMARO saw, that the idea for liberation of Macedonia can find followers among the Bulgarians non-Exarchists, as also among the other nationalities in Macedonia, and under the pressure from IMARO-members with left, socialist or anarchist convictions, they changed the statute of IMARO in sense, that member of IMARO can be any Macedonian, regardless of ethnicity or religious denomination."
Or the fact that Goce Delchev, whom you mentioned, looked up to Bulgarian revolutionaries from Bulgaria proper, or that he studied in the Sts. Cyril and Methodius Bulgarian Men's High School of Thessaloniki (Solunska balgarska mazhka gimnazia „Sv. sv. Kiril i Metodiy"), and called himself Bulgarian, and simply believed in an independent multiethnic Macedonian state that included his fellow Macedonian Bulgarians?
Or the fact that he wasn't even buried in Skopje, as you claim, but in Banitsa, a village in modern Greece near Serres, before his grave was moved by the Bulgarian army during WW2 to Xanthe, then Plovdiv, and then Sofia, before being returned to Banitsa?
How about Petar Poparsov, who moved to Bulgaria after the Balkan Wars, called himself Bulgarian, and repeatedly protested the Serbianisation of Macedonian Bulgarians?
Or Andon Dimitrov and Hristo Batandzhiev, who founded a political party called "Bulgarian Constitutional Clubs"?
Why did all of these people call themselves Bulgarians? And never brought up any ludicrous claims about being descendants of Alexander the Great or god knows what?
It's almost as if they were Bulgarians.

Learn to quote

Написао Bisexual, 05.07.2021 at 14:31

Since modern Greeks can't be considered descendants of ancient Greeks, I believe Greece does not have rights to be called that way. I suggest some other name, "South Greece" can work.

And, just to be clear, I could not care less about Greece/Macedonia drama, I just expressed my views idk why are you so hyped about them I believe Swans could not care less either.

Modern Greeks can be considered descendants of ancient Greeks though. I don't even know what to respond to first to this nonsense, the modern state of Greece controls the ancient traditional heartland of the Greek nation and modern Greek culture is part of the same continuity as ancient Greek one, unlike modern "'Macedonian" culture which has nothing to do with that of ancient Macedonians. Try to make your parallels make sense.

As for "Macedonian Slavs", I can accept that as a name, but that is not the name Skopjans use for themselves, they call themselves "Macedonians", period, which is plagiarism. It is unnatural to live in a world where foreign people who hear "Macedonia" think of Skopje and not Thessaloniki. And I care because I do not appreciate a nation that spawned into existence in the early 20th century lying to the world and claiming that foreign historical figures aren't part of the history of the countries they really lived in and called home. Especially when said lies are believed by certain people.

Написао Bisexual, 04.07.2021 at 22:56

Wow, isn't this fascism?
Macedonian is a South Slavic language, not Hellenic.No one should be taking 'area' as an argument for evaluation of nation's right to exist. Area that is governed by modern day's Macedonia/North Macedonia is populated by Macedonians, South Slavic ethnic group. Tsar Samuel being the first Tsar of the Macedonian Slavs in 10th century gives a long historical timeline for Macedonian Slavs to freely call themselves domestic in modern day Macedonia.
No one says that any Slavs are ancient Greeks, not even modern Greeks are descendants of ancient Greeks. Calling anyone's nation or country 'fakedonia' is unacceptable by my standards, but everyone here shows and behaves according to their own cultural pattern. Macedonian language is not some slavic dialect, it is one of the first Slavic languages to be founded.
Eternal problem of Macedonian Slavs is living between 4 voracious neighbours - Albanians (claiming part of their land), Greeks (completely negating them as a nation, going so far to not allowing them to use their historic name), Bulgarians (claiming that they are Bulgarians, not a separate ethnic group) and Serbians (declaring themselves as the best option for Macedonians, although they tried to serbize Macedonians in the past).
How can Greece live long when its external debt to gdp ratio is around 300%? Greeks should care less about Macedonians/Macedonian Slavs, and worry about economy, existence and future more. You won't live long depending on whether Macedonia will be called Macedonia or North Macedonia, your politicians just use this and other similiar irrelevant questions to draw attention from problems of Greek society.

Better cooperate with the region than to sabotage.

And here is the problem. Not content with plagiarising Greek historical figures, now the so-called "Macedonians" are plagiarising Bulgarian historical figures as well. Tsar Samuel was a Bulgarian, considered himself a Bulgarian, ruled a Bulgarian empire, and yes, his state had the core of its power at what is today known as "north Macedonia", guess why? Because "Macedonians" at the time were indistinguishable from Bulgarians. The IMRO that fought Greek and other militias in the 1893-1908 war was openly Bulgarian ethnically, its leader had this to say on the goals of the group:

"We talked a long time about the goal of this organization and at last we fixed it on the autonomy of Macedonia with the priority of the Bulgarian element. We couldn't accept the position for "direct joining to Bulgaria" because we saw that it would meet big difficulties by reason of confrontation of the Great powers and the aspirations of the neighbouring small countries and Turkey. It passed through our thoughts that one autonomous Macedonia could easier unite with Bulgaria subsequently and if the worst comes to the worst, that it could play a role as a unifying link of a federation of Balkan people. The region of Adrianople, as far as I remember, didn't take part in our program, and I think the idea to add it to autonomous Macedonia came later."

Direct quote from Hristo Tatarchev

Now you tell me so-called "Macedonians" aren't Bulgarians anymore and don't want to be thought as such, go ahead, I have no problem with that. But they need to acknowledge that their nation is just a hundred years old, and not try to plagiarise historical figures of other nations from centuries past, or use terminology such as "Macedonian" that is clearly fallacious as Macedonia is a Greek term in origin and has been used as such for centuries, and there are true Macedonians living today in Thessaloniki and other cities in the true Macedonia that do not appreciate foreigners using their name for themselves.

As for external debt, aside from the fact that it has nothing to do with the conversation at hand and being just a blatant attack on Greece to make you feel better about yourself, is actually an irrelevant factor in a nation's economy, Luxembourg has an external debt 63 times its GDP but nobody is suffering from poverty there. What you are looking for is national debt or government debt.

Greece doesn't want "North Macedonia" back, don't know where you heard that, Greece has never laid territorial claims on Skopje, not in many centuries anyway. As for why "North Macedonia" is a made up nation while Greece is not, it's because if you timeskip back a little over 100 years, the people you call "Macedonians" were identified both by themselves and by the rest of Europe as Bulgarians, but after the region came under the control of Serbia (and later Yugoslavia) a propaganda campaign was launched to convince the local people that they are not Bulgarians but a completely separate southern Slavic ethnicity. This was done to counter Bulgarian territorial claims to the region and also internal unrest. By contrast no foreign power came to Greece to force Greek people to think that they are Greek, the people of Greece have held a common national identity since the times of Homer and that has gone uninterrupted until the present day. The whole claim about Alexander the Great not being Greek but "Macedonian" (Skopjan) is less than 30 years old and was made after the independence of Skopje from Yugoslavia, and it is completely ludicrous, Alexander the Great identified as Greek as shown in numerous quotes by himself, spoke Greek, worshipped Greek gods, competed in the Olympic games, and held himself as champion of all Greeks, claiming to liberate the Greeks of Ionia from Persian rule. Even if for some magical reason he weren't Greek, he'd have nothing to do with the people now living in the Vardar valley, a territory that wasn't even part of ancient Macedonia until the times of Alexander, who are in all manners a Slavic nation with Slavic language and customs. What Greece and Greeks want in the entire debate is basically just for "Macedonians" to stop larping as something they are not and trying to claim Greek history as theirs, and admit that they are a south Slavic nation closely related to Bulgarians.

As for modern Greeks not being related to ancient Greeks, that is blatantly false, modern Greek language is directly descended from ancient Greek, genetically the majority of Greeks trace their ancestry to ancient Greeks, with natural intermixing that comes with time and population movements, every aspect of modern Greek culture from customs and traditions to values and morality has its basis on ancient Greece, children grow up with legends of Odysseus and Achilles. For the comparison with Egyptians, Turks, Bosniaks and whatnot, many of the things stated above are wrong: Egyptians do not speak a language descended from their ancient one but instead speak Arabic and most of their customs are Arabic in origin, Turks are genetically mostly related to ancient Anatolian peoples as well as Greeks, you can just google Turk DNA tests and Greek DNA tests and see the results, Greeks are much more Greek than Turks are Turkic (Central Asian), and Turkish culture has been affected by Greek one much more than the other way around. As for Bosniaks supposedly being Czechs or Hungarians or whatever, realise Bosnia was under Habsburg rule for just 40 years, and no major immigration waves happened in that time, Bosniaks are very much descended from Slavs who came to the region in the 1st millennium, as well as older local peoples like Illyrians, but more importantly aside from their religion their culture is near-identical to their neighbouring Serbs and Croats.

Happy Rwanda Liberation Day

What, you're telling me there's coalitions that aren't run by pedophiles?

So I first thought about this while discussing with clanmembers who argued that the empire should try to keep as many scenario players in it to better coordinate hosting and to keep an active community, and I think I suggested this years ago as in the forum as well. What if there was a chat (like game, room, global yaddayadda) about game types, like scenarios, CW, world map and such? It could help people talk about the games they are playing or ask for help without being limited by room chat spam or clan membership, and though I am not a programmer so I might be wrong I am assuming it'd be very easy to do.

Anybody's tried to ask low ranks why they lose interest in the game after a month?

STOP MAKING TOURNAMENTS ON JUST ONE MAP

I'm disbanding our team.

In

Написао Brsjak, 16.10.2020 at 09:57

Blatant lie. Nearly all schools in Tibet teach in Tibetan. Situation in Qinghai is different, where only Tibetan and English classes are taught in Tibetan, but regardless.

Написао 31TENGRI69, 07.10.2020 at 04:48

brainwashed and armed by russia to rebel and attack turks 100 years ago

Excuse me what

How do you need to be "brainwashed by Russia" to rebel against a foreign occupying power that has oppressed you for hundreds of years, in fact outright massacring hundreds of thousands of your people during the 1894 massacres, are Turks truly deluded enough to think Armenians rebelled against them for no reason?

Написао JUGERS2, 05.10.2020 at 16:47

I would like to see same scenario happening to Cyprus were Greeks go te reclaim the rest of the island... would you still support Turkey that would support it's "ethnic brothers in their own territory under their control".?

Difference is that Turkish Cypriots never wanted the invasion to happen, never wanted their country to split in two, and, for a good part of them, never wanted to be plucked off from their homes in southern Cyprus and forcefully relocated to the north. Cyprus was an invasion by a foreign power, Nagorno-Karabakh was a locals' popular revolt.

Imagine unironically supporting yet another Turkish genocide

Enjoy your 20-player map that will never fill, I guess.

If you have reached r10 and still have exactly 1000 elo, you have succeeded.

Imagine being enough of a WW1fag to call the faction "Prussia" instead of "Germany"

"Socialism" is way too broad a spectrum for me to really know what the second demographic is really composed of. This is a characteristic of finalistic ideologies like communism, however, as their canon inherently implies that their ideology is the only road to society's salvation, and must thus be pushed forth nomatter what.

It needs to be thicc. Basically if a unit can cross over a sea of the same size, it can also cross over the no-go.

It had a good run, but unfortunately 18 July 2020 marks the end of the internet as every and each site collapses. In turn, this marks the end of my own life, as it no longer bears any substance.

Every day you think Erdogan can't get any lower and every day he just does.

Написао Mesopotamia, 04.07.2020 at 15:46

I see borders but no country names or cities in preview

That's more likely a preview bug, have seen it in other maps before, to me it appears fine, more importantly I doubt all cities suddenly vanished into thin air (unless the editor is just that crappy)

I too am eager to celebrate Rwandan liberation day.

Написао Mesopotamia, 03.07.2020 at 22:42

You get that error/message when there are no countries/cities in the map .. so the map is set to zero players basically .. try contacting the map/scenario creator .. looks like it was modified not too long ago .. maybe he was working on it

They're all there in the preview.

Expected behaviour: I try to host Pyrrhus' Kaiserreich: New Dawn scenario and expect it to be hosted normally

Actual behaviour: When I try to host it, I get a message saying "Error: Maximum player limit reached, sorry." as soon as I enter the waiting lobby.

Steps to reproduce the behaviour: Try hosting the map in question.

Browser: Opera.

Expected behaviour: I copy a map, then try to save it, and expect it to be saved

Actual behaviour: I get these three lovely messages



And then when I exit editor and check, the copy isn't there

Steps to reproduce the behaviour: Try to copy a map.

Browser: Opera

I thought Nero was Italian O.o