Gaddafi and NATO

I voted no.

First thread that has any meaning, first upvote.

Of course

I don't know about the "right" to kill him but it was definitely a terrible decision

No...

Написао Black Swans, 29.03.2017 at 01:56

Of course

could you explain why you feel this way

If NATO's alleged purpose is true (to defend freedom, and to prevent spread of communism and pro-communist ideals in Europe) then it seems hypocritical to kill anyone in pursuit of 'freedom'.
Killing someone is among the most extreme examples of violating freedom, as that individual is no longer free to make choices (at least not in that particular body, for those who consider reincarnation a viable model).

If NATO were to hold to it's own standards, it would not kill a leader... It has the tools to capture and try them as 'war criminal' among other non-lethal actions, which would essentially put an end to any effective leadership, while giving healthy doses of condemnation and humiliation to the fallen leader. Killing of a minor leader is just for the pure pleasure of those in control.

However, since anyone has the freedom to kill anyone else, provided they accept the consequences, i suppose NATO hasn't done anything unjustified.

Написао Viruslegion, 29.03.2017 at 11:13

Написао Black Swans, 29.03.2017 at 01:56

Of course

could you explain why you feel this way

I despise leaders who, 'defend' their people by killing them

Qadafi was a dictator, there's no debate, but he made Libyan economy 1# in Africa and there were no African migrants to Europe from there. Now when Libya is democracy their living standard dropped 5000% and they are emigrating to Europe.

So it was either 'you have good job and peace and i control politics' or 'lets not care for economy and fight each other for political power as local clans'.

Lybia no 1 economy of Africa? Xaxaxaxa, bro, have you heared of countries like South Africa or Ethiopia? Stop mixing lies with truth.

Написао Guest, 29.03.2017 at 18:31

Lybia no 1 economy of Africa? Xaxaxaxa, bro, have you heared of countries like South Africa or Ethiopia? Stop mixing lies with truth.

Libya did have the number 1 economy in Africa and the highest life expectancy.

Написао Cpt.Magic, 29.03.2017 at 19:13

Написао Guest, 29.03.2017 at 18:31

Lybia no 1 economy of Africa? Xaxaxaxa, bro, have you heared of countries like South Africa or Ethiopia? Stop mixing lies with truth.

Libya did have the number 1 economy in Africa and the highest life expectancy.

having and exporting oil doesen't cover the myriads of branches of the economy, get real

Написао Guest, 29.03.2017 at 21:35

having and exporting oil doesen't cover the myriads of branches of the economy, get real

This is from a Globalization Research Organization - for those who buy into economics, its about as credible as you can expect: here's the link where the following quotes are from
http://www.globalresearch.ca/libya-from-africas-richest-state-under-gaddafi-to-failed-state-after-nato-intervention/5408740

In 1967 Colonel Gaddafi inherited one of the poorest nations in Africa; however, by the time he was assassinated, Gaddafi had turned Libya into Africa's wealthiest nation. Libya had the highest GDP per capita and life expectancy on the continent. Less people lived below the poverty line than in the Netherlands.

After NATO's intervention in 2011, Libya is now a failed state and its economy is in shambles. As the government's control slips through their fingers and into to the militia fighters' hands, oil production has all but stopped.

========
Given GDP is generally accepted as the broadest and single most important economic indicator, it's kind of hard to argue that they werent the number 1 economy prior to Gaddafi's demise.

Написао Guest, 29.03.2017 at 21:35

Написао Cpt.Magic, 29.03.2017 at 19:13

Написао Guest, 29.03.2017 at 18:31

Lybia no 1 economy of Africa? Xaxaxaxa, bro, have you heared of countries like South Africa or Ethiopia? Stop mixing lies with truth.

Libya did have the number 1 economy in Africa and the highest life expectancy.

having and exporting oil doesen't cover the myriads of branches of the economy, get real

Yes it kind of does. How else do you think k the Middle East is so rich & the US hasn't invaded them to bring peace, democracy & the American Way to them? How do you think they're so rich? Saudi is a country which has very few regional rivals, none of them have a good military (either too small, or not advanced enough) and yet it has the 3rd largest defence budget of $88 billion... Why does it need so much? It doesn't. But they want to show off that they have the money to spend, which they got because of oil. US & NATO are dependent on Saudi oil, mostly.

Anybody who thinks qadaffi is worse than any western leader is somewhat deluded. He was loved by most of his people. Gadaffi wanted to sell oil for gold dinar (a tangible currency) as opposed to the worthless dollar - similar to sadam hussain, he also had plans to irrigate the lybian Sarah desert and turn the country into a food producing super power. For those reasons he did not suit the NATO agenda and had to go.

Написао brianwl, 29.03.2017 at 11:15

If NATO were to hold to it's own standards, it would not kill a leader... It has the tools to capture and try them as 'war criminal' among other non-lethal actions, which would essentially put an end to any effective leadership, while giving healthy doses of condemnation and humiliation to the fallen leader. Killing of a minor leader is just for the pure pleasure of those in control.

If NATO did try Hussein, Gadaff, Osama bin Laden in the Hague, then all of NATO dirty laundry would be hung out to dry for the entire world to see. This could not happen, hence why hussein was tried in a kangaroo court in Iraq, bin Laden thrown out of a helicopter at sea, despite being caught alive (supposedly) and Gadaffi being tried and killed by rebels funded and armed by NATO. They tried this with president assad because if has control over the gas pipeline from Qatar and oil pipes from Iraq and Saudi into Europe, however removing him is not so easy despite the billions funding mercenary groups and air strikes due to unwavering support from the people of Syria.

Russian bots are striking again, huh...
It's hard to see value of freedom when you got it for free.
I would pick independent Bosnia every time, with lower gdp, with 150.000 dead, with 1 million people who left it due to aggression and hardship after it. It's freedom that I value the most

Написао Guest, 29.03.2017 at 21:35

having and exporting oil doesen't cover the myriads of branches of the economy, get real

Saudi Arabia disagrees.

Yea, but Saudi Arabia has 5x the oil reserves of Libya.
Number 1 economy of Africa. Based on the oil reserves? How can this be compared with South Africa, with its diverse and advanced economy?
Sorry, I prefer the diverse economies and the ones based on services why not, instead of the ones based on one natural reserve which was found by luck and which will be eventually be depleted.
These countries which have had struck the black gold need to wake up and invest in what it's important. I know it might be dream-like to make the transition from a forgotten desert to a country where millions and millions of dollars flow in exchange of raw oil, but they need to.
And up until now it isn't sure about Gadaffi's involvement in the Lockerbie bombing.

Написао Guest, 31.03.2017 at 01:01

Yea, but Saudi Arabia has 5x the oil reserves of Libya.
Number 1 economy of Africa. Based on the oil reserves? How can this be compared with South Africa, with its diverse and advanced economy?
Sorry, I prefer the diverse economies and the ones based on services why not, instead of the ones based on one natural reserve which was found by luck and which will be eventually be depleted.
These countries which have had struck the black gold need to wake up and invest in what it's important. I know it might be dream-like to make the transition from a forgotten desert to a country where millions and millions of dollars flow in exchange of raw oil, but they need to.
And up until now it isn't sure about Gadaffi's involvement in the Lockerbie bombing.

Gtfoh and suck more south africa ass

Написао Guest, 29.03.2017 at 18:31

Lol you got so rekted by multiple players here. I feel for you.

Написао Sun Tsu, 29.03.2017 at 23:47

Dude you're admin, don't get into this kind of debates/topics. You shouldn't do it because you will alienate half of community or prospect players. You know how that goes, black and white, 'you're either with us or against us' mentality, if you say something against the West, they'll think you're pro-Russian and they will leave the game because 'putinist admin'. So don't do it.

That's the price you have to pay, personnal limited freedom of speech or limited speech overall.

Написао Skanderbeg, 31.03.2017 at 11:22

Написао Sun Tsu, 29.03.2017 at 23:47

Dude you're admin, don't get into this kind of debates/topics. .... So don't do it.

That's the price you have to pay, personnal limited freedom of speech or limited speech overall.

So let me get this straight... in your world, players should be able to say absolutely anything they want, even if it's offensive, aggressive, hostile, obscene, and untrue, WHILE an admin should NOT be able to give a thought provoking opinion based on generally accepted facts?

Написао brianwl, 31.03.2017 at 11:48

So let me get this straight... in your world, players should be able to say absolutely anything they want, even if it's offensive, aggressive, hostile, obscene, and untrue, WHILE an admin should NOT be able to give a thought provoking opinion based on generally accepted facts?

I can't teach you your job... There are rules players should obey, if they violate them then mods punish them, it's that simple. So they cannot be offensive, aggressive or obscene. Sure admin can get involved in the community, but not when community discuss politics because this game is created to make money and you won't make money if people leave, and they might leave when they see admin accuse some country for real life events.

He's attacking Western countries which comprise 80% of this community so i can only imagine some westerner r4 reading this and deciding not to spend 40$ he planned. Then talk about business. Even i Easterner who lived in communism and is still being 'accused' of being a commie see the failure in this. i wish i could watch Ivan and Amok when they check game statistics at the end of the quarter.

But don't mind me, i'm just happy i still didn't get banned for being honest and rules-abiding player in the game where moderators are chosen bad and some players manage to fraud admins and mods for protocoins and premium accounts.

No i don't suppose you could...

The topic was Gaddaffi and NATO's roll in his killing. It's in off-topic, so i can't see why anyone wouldn't be able to express their views.

In my view, it seemed a little strange that Libya was in western media/commercial news frequently (back in the day of the bombings), and then for over 10 years there was relatively little (which generally means Western allies don't have any serious problems with the leader.) Then suddenly there was this mass media campaign, and he was in the news constantly being portrayed as a 'madman' , so anyone who isn't completely brainwashed knew something was up, even if they couldn't foreshadow it was an assassination attempt.

While i don't know anyone from Libya to get some non-commercial media information, the impression i had was most Libyans were more satisfied under Gaddaffi than under the present conditions. So it could make you wonder why now that there is actually something to report in Libya, the media is back to relative quiet once he was killed. I happen to agree with Sun on why this was, and i would guess most critical thinkers (even westerners) would also, but what the hell do i know?

Написао Skanderbeg, 31.03.2017 at 11:22

Написао Sun Tsu, 29.03.2017 at 23:47

Dude you're admin, don't get into this kind of debates/topics. You shouldn't do it because you will alienate half of community or prospect players. You know how that goes, black and white, 'you're either with us or against us' mentality, if you say something against the West, they'll think you're pro-Russian and they will leave the game because 'putinist admin'. So don't do it.

That's the price you have to pay, personnal limited freedom of speech or limited speech overall.

Don't be ridiculous

Написао Skanderbeg, 31.03.2017 at 11:22

Написао Sun Tsu, 29.03.2017 at 23:47

Dude you're admin, don't get into this kind of debates/topics. You shouldn't do it because you will alienate half of community or prospect players. You know how that goes, black and white, 'you're either with us or against us' mentality, if you say something against the West, they'll think you're pro-Russian and they will leave the game because 'putinist admin'. So don't do it.

That's the price you have to pay, personnal limited freedom of speech or limited speech overall.

What a bunch of bullshit. Admins and mods are very welcome to post whatever their want in the forums, we all want that.

Plus he didnt say anything bad against the West, being redpilled and outing the truth is not the same as being offensive. You wouldnt know but we do that in the "west" alot, doesnt make us pro-anything, it just makes us informed and subjective.

Написао Khal.eesi, 31.03.2017 at 22:59

What a bunch of bullshit. Admins and mods are very welcome to post whatever their want in the forums, we all want that.

Plus he didnt say anything bad against the West, being redpilled and outing the truth is not the same as being offensive. You wouldnt know but we do that in the "west" alot, doesnt make us pro-anything, it just makes us informed and subjective.

Then go for it, i don't care. Just said that might turn down some prospect customers. We are small community of 200 members, so it's not great minus, but you'll feel the difference when there's 1 million.

p.s.
what a bullshit words... 'redpill', 'truth', 'offensive', 'informed', 'subjective', atleast i thought you would know better, since Greece is 1# tourist destination in Europe, imagine your host start talking 'his views' (political) bothering you to death, openly telling you he's against your country or complaining about your country deeds in recent history, i doubt you will return next year. He can forget my money, ain't gonna see it.

p.s.s
hmm, maybe that's why Greek gdp is lower and less visitors, Austria is reaching Greek level.

Написао Skanderbeg, 31.03.2017 at 11:22

Написао Sun Tsu, 29.03.2017 at 23:47

Dude you're admin, don't get into this kind of debates/topics. You shouldn't do it because you will alienate half of community or prospect players. You know how that goes, black and white, 'you're either with us or against us' mentality, if you say something against the West, they'll think you're pro-Russian and they will leave the game because 'putinist admin'. So don't do it.

That's the price you have to pay, personnal limited freedom of speech or limited speech overall.

Better have a smart dictator then "democracy"