Clarification on the rules/etiquette of Competitive play.

Написао Permamuted, 06.10.2014 at 23:53

Написао b0nker2, 06.10.2014 at 23:45

Написао Permamuted, 06.10.2014 at 23:41

Написао b0nker2, 06.10.2014 at 23:34

Why be surprised that I don't agree with you, like I said you ran the risk by placing your units next to somewhere that is in my opinion a legitimate place to wf, If he had attempted to wall Belgium it would have had the same outcome.

if he had wf'd belgium from the other side this would never have been an issue. this should never have been a risk.

I really just dont understand where you guys are coming from on this or what logic youre applying, it basically fucks with the standards i have maintained since i begun playing competitively.

So youre saying its perfectly ok to wf on an another persons territory turn 1, as long as its not a cap wall and the wf remains outside the territory?

Lao, his Wf was for Belguim, your plan failed. The only unofficial rule is not to intentionally WF cities. Which he didn't. I will repeat you ran the risk by having the wall that far out, if he had rushed paris turn 2 I also wouldn't have had a problem.

so by your logic it would appear that it is ok to wf walls on an opponents territory as long as you find a way to do so without invading their territory? that basically renders all non inland and city walls on an opponents territory useless.

i believe you will find many conflicting opinions to your view bonk, and not just inside the competitive community. Id imagine quite an outcry from most players if you are to carry out what youre describing on them.

What? If I have a unit on my land, within my border; and your wall is interrupted by that unit, well then i'm sorry, make a better wall.

You are now trying to limit where i can put my units within my own land.

Цитирај:

Написао Permamuted, 06.10.2014 at 23:58

Написао W4R_MaChINE, 06.10.2014 at 23:52

whether there are witnesses inside or outside illyria is irrelvant, your own integrity is in question, the wf was on the france side of belgium, if you deny this you are simply a liar.

Irregardless your whole attitude to this has just pissed me off in general.

How would my third point be ridiculous? It's based on simple logic.
Yes I would still ignore your outer wall, because technically, it doesnt exist. Why would I sit and let you rewall your outer wall? LOL?
--------------------------------------------------------------
I'm just stating that your witnesses are those who were either playing the cw, or illyrian spectators, which creates bias.

" if you deny this you are simply a liar. " This just makes me laugh.
I would like a bit of proof before you start making statements like this.
It's very easy to get on forums, take a SS from a private match and say "This happened".
Just stop. this is all conjecture at best.

i didnt take an ss of tthat wf, lucky you, if this was in court i would be laughed out of it. but we're not in court we're on a game forum, and its your own honesty thats in question, i dont give a fuck what you want the community to think, i know that unit was on my territory, you know it was. But you deny it to what, save face? i dont believe you did it intentionally, but i dislike how you're now lying about how it happened under the absense of proof.

congratulations, youve just been added to my shitlist.

Your statements are premature.
What i'm trying to make the community think? You are the one posting a thread on this whole subject. claiming something has happened with no proof?
You know that unit was on your territory, yet witnesses from the game say otherwise?
Can I call your honesty into question MR. LAOCHRA?

I havent read this argument in the posts but my preliminary impression is: If its on your land, then its there. If it was like right beside Belgium cap then nah.

I saw the CW, and the unit was indeed inside Laochra's France. While Laochra's side has no proof, I'm sure most respected members of this community can attest to my integrity even without me being a moderator. That's a big no no for W4r, don't place your unit inside another player's home country on the first turn next time.

However the big wall Laochra made is essentially your capital wall. You remake your capital wall the next turn, trying to earn yourself another turn of safety. There'd be no problem if you made a 3 man capital wall inside then a large wall all around, he'd have to hit your inside wall to get to you, but in this case there was nothing to hit besides your capital. He graciously did not rush your capital. He just placed a simple wallfuck. I'm sure you know I'm against wallglitching of ANY sort, or "rewalling" as you want it named, but this just seems a derivative of it. You're still remaking your capital wall. Just make a 3 man wall inside too, problem solved.

To address the topic title, it's obvious you should never place units inside another player's territory on the first turn. It is also obvious you should never wallfuck an enemy capital or city on the first turn.

Why? Because these things are unavoidable. In older versions of atWar (Afterwind), there was no peace first turn, so you could really rush someone and cap them on the initial turn. There is no skill in this, it's unavoidable if someone wanted to do this. Not capping first turn became a natural rule for competitive play. When the update came where we could not attack someone first turn, the new problem is that we cannot attack where they will send a unit to wallfuck from. We can not turn block the wf unit first turn. This makes wallfucking first turn unavoidable if someone wanted to do it, which is why not wf'ing first turn is competitive etiquette.

Hope that clarifies some things.

In short:

- making double layer walls around the capital
- making a big wall and then rewalling
- geting into enemy territory 1st turn
- wall fuckin your big wall intended for rewalling purposes - no right to cry

- Argumment that you are using 8 troops to do this etc. - because upon succesfull rewall you will have 30+ units that dont need to defend the cap

Huge advantage made by no skill - you guys still do it in CW's and did it last time when i CW'd with you - Zero respect from me for your "competence".

Seriiously you complain about this? ....
Since illyria is made, all you guys do (mostly you) is complaining about the things what happen to you.
You guys expect us to be fine with the rewall,bugg,glitches,now the inner 2 turn wal..
I am going to WF the people who use this inner 2 turn wall. The no WF is meant for turn 1. By doing this wf I am making sure you are not able to inner wall turn 2. If I wf the bigger wall, you cant wall your capital turn 2 without getting wf'ed or getting harmed. My wf is only meant for the bigger walls, and will put my unit far enough so it wont wf a normal triangle wall. Like it or not, but you guys (mostly from illyria) are pushing the people who play against/with you to play lame. I don't like to lower my self to this kind of lame strategy.

Dont quote me again with: nice personal and attacking again. Because I am not.

Написао Goblin, 07.10.2014 at 03:50

In short:

- making double layer walls around the capital
- making a big wall and then rewalling
- geting into enemy territory 1st turn
- wall fuckin your big wall intended for rewalling purposes - no right to cry

- Argumment that you are using 8 troops to do this etc. - because upon succesfull rewall you will have 30+ units that dont need to defend the cap

Huge advantage made by no skill - you guys still do it in CW's and did it last time when i CW'd with you - Zero respect from me for your "competence".

Exactly. Start playing with WF turn 1 for this bigger gay wall. Leaving no other choice.

I agree with Laochra here. I have always played so that if a wall inside your territory is WF'd on t1, we continue as the wall was connected. (Except for when you make a wall that isn't closed, because you can't really check if they passed through it or not and it becomes kind of complicated. An example would be a wall alongside the border of Spain-France). If spain, say, attacks switz first turn, their trans may wf a wall around Marseilles. This has happened to me before, and we continued as if the wall was connected. This is the same here in my opinion.

Well, at least he didn't attack paris.

You started this without me :/
well here is the SS



Pretty clear the wf was on France land.We all wf between NL and Belgia usually.A unit right on France border has 1 intention and only.To wallfuck a potential France big wall.Claiming otherwise is either naive or a big fat lie.So we have established foul motives and breaking of the community rule, which is no unit in enemy territory.We, the community, made these rules, passed on from the generations before us, to mantain a good and healthy atmosphere in cws.I dont like the way you respond to Laochra War.You are so arrogant for a new player.And a little agreesive to your ex-clan leader i would add.And if we want to speak from experience, i have more cws (official+ unofficial) on my back, than you and Mou combined and i can tell you, that with some few exceptions, this rule is respected.Bonkers also respects this rule, i dont know why he says those things now.He cried the other day, when Kratore accidentally wf'ed his hamburg with a trans.I could say then Bonker, that since Krats trans was in sea and not on German land, its ok then, right?right?
So bottom line, if Evol wants to play like this, i can legit wf all ports next cw..im gonna be technically on water and not on your land.how bout that?

p.s.Waffel stop coming to threads just to argue.If you have nothing constructive to add, stay out.And change your out of context signature, i dont like it..

Написао Khal.eesi, 07.10.2014 at 07:10

You started this without me :/
well here is the SS
p.s.Waffel stop coming to threads just to argue.If you have nothing constructive to add, stay out.And change your out of context signature, i dont like it..

Stop with your bullshit conclusion.. I posted what I think about this not to argue, like all of you guys do. Only because you don't like it doesnt mean its crap.

Funny how these threads stay open? Mine get deleted by the second... '''reason: flamewar''
nice bias mods!

He could have walled belgium, and your wall would have been wallfucked...

Написао Tundy, 07.10.2014 at 08:41

He could have walled belgium, and your wall would should have been wallfucked...

Написао Khal.eesi, 07.10.2014 at 07:10

thanks khal.

Написао W4R_MaChINE, 07.10.2014 at 00:04

Your statements are premature.
What i'm trying to make the community think? You are the one posting a thread on this whole subject. claiming something has happened with no proof?
You know that unit was on your territory, yet witnesses from the game say otherwise?
Can I call your honesty into question MR. LAOCHRA?

i dont know why you guys lied about it, but shame on you, and worse attempting to call my integrity into question, and that of my clanmembers.

Написао Waffel, 07.10.2014 at 03:53

Since illyria is made, all you guys do (mostly you) is complaining about the things what happen to you.

theres a new waffel complaint topic in general discussion everyday. back on the ignore list for you, ive no interest in reading your posts. Or undoubtedly the bombardment of personal attacks youll make in this thread in response to this post.

Написао Goblin, 07.10.2014 at 03:50

- making double layer walls around the capital
- making a big wall and then rewalling

theres is absolutely no difference between these 2 walls which you just described, i leave the 3 reins inside paris and dont wall turn 1 with them because the units may link with the outside wall, or if the outside wall is close to the inside wall and they dont link, that double wall can still be opened in 1 turn as mauz showed me with 2 units.

there is no logic to your argument whatsoever.

i dislike you coming to this thread and telling me ive no skill, this is a cry thread and that you disrespect our competence. especially when its all based on poor reasoning and personal opinion. Kindly keep these opinions to yourself.

Shame on you and shame on your clan mates for rewalling this way in every CW ...if you made double layer wall i wouldnt say a thing, but still you have the nerve here to complain about him puting his unit on the border of your country while you were trying to do a move that would give you an unfair advantage over him and he isnt in a position to be able to do the same move.

Argumment that you are using 11 troops to do this is playing dumb ...11 troops to do this with france, or turkey f.e. is nothing compared to what benefits you will have by having your capital walled for one more turn.

One of key argumments aswell made by you people who like to rewall was that it was preventable by 1 extra unit ...big wall rewall isnt.

Написао Permamuted, 07.10.2014 at 10:33

Написао Goblin, 07.10.2014 at 03:50

- making double layer walls around the capital
- making a big wall and then rewalling

theres is absolutely no difference between these 2 walls which you just described, i leave the 3 reins inside paris and dont wall turn 1 with them because the units may link with the outside wall, or if the outside wall is close to the inside wall and they dont link, that double wall can still be opened in 1 turn as mauz showed me with 2 units.

there is no logic to your argument whatsoever.

i dislike you coming to this thread and telling me ive no skill, this is a cry thread and that you disrespect our competence. especially when its all based on poor reasoning and personal opinion. Kindly keep these opinions to yourself.

And NO ...DONT YOU fuckin DARE use this patheticism.

Who the fuck first of all said you have no skill? dont put words in my mouth laochra your making me mad.

You have no fuckin reasoning when it comes to rewalling, you guys never had any argumments for it, opposed to my hundred argumments on why its bad.

Your competence i still spit on it until you guys stop using pathetic methods.

Написао Goblin, 07.10.2014 at 10:46

good opportunity to bring the re-wall debate up, again.We havent done it, this month..

Написао Goblin, 07.10.2014 at 10:43

Shame on you and shame on your clan mates for rewalling this way in every CW ...if you made double layer wall i wouldnt say a thing, but still you have the nerve here to complain about him puting his unit on the border of your country while you were trying to do a move that would give you an unfair advantage over him and he isnt in a position to be able to do the same move.

Argumment that you are using 11 troops to do this is playing dumb ...11 troops to do this with france, or turkey f.e. is nothing compared to what benefits you will have by having your capital walled for one more turn.

One of key argumments aswell made by you people who like to rewall was that it was preventable by 1 extra unit ...big wall rewall isnt.

unfair? i disagree with this completely, uk no matter where it expands has the versatility to unload 50+ units onto paris after turn 2, as if and with tanks this is very difficult to counter. Their are few countries i would consider circle walling with, but france is one of them. but this is irrelevant,

im not having the rewalling argument again , the fact that you think you had 100 arguments against and the rest of us had nothing for tells me you didnt listen to a word we said.

patheticism? there is no difference in effect between the double walling you support and what i did.



fun fact - this, what youre supporting can be opened in 1 turn without bugs. And if this functioned as a double wall it would for less units accomplish the exact same as what i did. Yet you laughably criticise what i did and support this.

i dislike how you're basically claiming i got my just desserts because i used a strategical wall which you dislike.

anyway i am not interested in a flame war, all i have learned from all this is that w4r and mou are liars. and that different players have different standards and opinions since the rules on this are vague and not technically official. Im not stubborn, as always ill just have to adjust.

Dont edit my posts Khal.

Everyone here knows rewalling gives huge advantages ...if it wasnt like that Laochra, Acquiesce and others wouldnt use it.
As i said thousands of times ...not every country, player, strategy etc. is able to do the same thing in a game, therefor making it an unfair advantage.

And what now ...we are all fuckin idiots because we realize the unfairness of this and of big walls, but you are the great illyria who doesnt give a shit about what others think?
Well, BRAVO!

Talk all you want laochra ...and that ss has nothing to do on what i said.

I agree that if player A's units accidentally wf walls created inside player B's territory, the wall should still be considered active and player A shouldn't attack that particular city.

After viewing the SS, I also agree that UK was in the wrong as clearly the unit was inside France and chances are it would've likely wf'ed a triangle wall around Paris as well. And in that case UK is clearly breaking (what I consider) 3v3 competitive play etiquette.

That being said if UK went full Belgium or Netherlands and his trans were to accidentally wf the big wall made around Paris, I don't 100% agree it should be assumed it walled. Reason being is that rewalling an inner city cap is not 100% guaranteed even if the big wall was unhindered. There are plenty of times where Turk decides to make a big wall around Ankara and when I hit the big walls my units will live and wf a Turk rewall of Ankara. I've experienced it both ways where I've made a big wall but my rewall of Ankara was still unsuccessful.

Therefore, in my opinion, Laochra is correct in calling out foul play as the unit was clearly inside France. However, I don't agree with his argument that we should 100% respect walls designed to have a rewall inside. Simply because the rewalls inside aren't always 100% guaranteed like a normal 3-unit-triangle wall.

Написао Goblin, 07.10.2014 at 11:07

And what now ...we are all fuckin idiots because we realize the unfairness of this and of big walls, but you are the great illyria who doesnt give a shit about what others think?
Well, BRAVO!

i never said that, or even implied that, youre as bad as waffel. you completely just ignored the content of my previous post to attack me and my clanmembers.

Написао Goblin, 07.10.2014 at 03:50

- making double layer walls around the capital
- making a big wall and then rewalling

Написао Goblin, 07.10.2014 at 11:07

Talk all you want laochra ...and that ss has nothing to do on what i said.

and wow you have since deleted the post in question.

Reminder; let's not get off-topic and argue yet again about whether rewalling should be allowed or shouldn't be allowed. Otherwise it will have to get locked while there could be a discussion on whether the original post should be allowed or not.

If someone wants to argue on rewalling, create a new topic that will aim to reach a general consensus among the players.

Написао Permamuted, 07.10.2014 at 11:13

i never said that, or even implied that, youre as bad as waffel. you completely just ignored the content of my previous post to attack me and my clanmembers. well Bravo to you too.

Dont bullshit me ...how many times have you guys downgraded my expirience ingame about rewalling and the game itself, posting argumments about it ...to a "its your pathetic opinion goblin and we dont give a fuck about it cuz we smart"

Not even having this discussion again ...do what you want.

Написао Permamuted, 07.10.2014 at 11:13

and wow you have since deleted the post in question.

What post? ...what the fuck are you talking about, didnt delete a post for months? Are you goin all TITO on me? ...wow, go to hell man.

Написао Milkyy, 07.10.2014 at 11:14

Reminder; let's not get off-topic and argue yet again about whether rewalling should be allowed or shouldn't be allowed. Otherwise it will have to get locked while there could be a discussion on whether the original post should be allowed or not.

If someone wants to argue on rewalling, create a new topic that will aim to reach a general consensus among the players.

clovis was actually correct in his original post, nothing will come of this thread, we have our difference of opinions on etiquette and how aw should be played, unless someone officially states a rule and clarifies the nuances then enforces it on the community nothing will change. Variations of what happened to me will occur and further complaints will be made.in the future. We all saw what happened when we tried to make the community come to an agreement on rewalling.

Написао Goblin, 07.10.2014 at 11:20

posting argumments about it ...to a "its your pathetic opinion goblin and we dont give a fuck about it cuz we smart"

i would love to see where that was paraphrased from.

Opinions on rewalling aside,

As Desu explained to me and posted above, having one big layer of walls with no 3 man cap wall technically means your cap wall is the big wall because nothing is preventing you from getting the capital but it. Now making a wall inside of the big wall preventing someone from taking your capital the next turn while the other breaks the big wall with the intention of at least having the possibility to attack your capital next turn, but this is prevented by the fresh 3 man wall. So technically you've rewalled your cap and it will be considered as rewalling. Which is why adding the 3 man wall t1 makes the big wall simply considered as another layer of walling, not your cap wall. Besides, you had enough space to make the 3 man wall without it touching the inner border of the big wall. If someone did big wall + no cap wall to me I wouldn't give a shit because its practically the same, but this is a matter of as the title states of '' rules/etiquette of Competitive play. ''

Написао The Tactician, 07.10.2014 at 11:36

Opinions on rewalling aside,

As Desu explained to me and posted above, having one big layer of walls with no 3 man cap wall technically means your cap wall is the big wall because nothing is preventing you from getting the capital but it. Now making a wall inside of the big wall preventing someone from taking your capital the next turn while the other breaks the big wall with the intention of at least having the possibility to attack your capital next turn, but this is prevented by the fresh 3 man wall. So technically you've rewalled your cap and it will be considered as rewalling. Which is why adding the 3 man wall t1 makes the big wall simply considered as another layer of walling, not your cap wall. Besides, you had enough space to make the 3 man wall without it touching the inner border of the big wall. If someone did big wall + no cap wall to me I wouldn't give a shit because its practically the same, but this is a matter of as the title states of '' rules/etiquette of Competitive play. ''

This

Lao only has 1 problem. He can never ever be wrong. In his mind there isn't even a single fraction of a percent that he is ever wrong about anything. Desu, Goblin (Very respectable people) Say that w4rs unit shouldn't have been over France as much as is should've, However they both agree on that circle wall is BS. And should be done each cw to block the unfair advantage. But again, opinions! (Not bashing you lao, just dropping a post in)