Infantry OP, should be -2 attack

I dont cry, i just think its boring......

Написао MURAD IV, 13.01.2015 at 09:17

I dont talk about games with tanks i talk about medieval games, i use SM in modern worlds anyway, every medieval games all just make infantry which is very boring, just whoever has bigger stack and more allies wins...

either learn attrition warfare and how to break down inf spammers. or go play different maps.

Написао MURAD IV, 13.01.2015 at 11:54

I dont cry, i just think its boring......

And the solution to your boredom is to nerf infantry? Come on! Less crying, more training buddy. Make it fun or try new maps... or come up with a new gameplay which totally anhilates PD players.

Well i can beat them 1 by 1, but no one can beat 3 at same time...

Написао MURAD IV, 13.01.2015 at 13:30

Well i can beat them 1 by 1, but no one can beat 3 at same time...

In that case, it doesn't depend on the strategy but on the number of opponents... the problem there is either not having enough help or playing against too many allyfags, which won't be solved by nerfing infantry! You wouldn't beat 3 RA players at the same time wouldn't you?? Does that mean we should nerf tanks? XD

Since you cared so much for bring proof, I am going to reply you, laochra.

However I must point that whatever happens here, nothing will get solved. Devs would rather let MapMarkers make another map than "try" to balance units. Sorry guys, but we lost this war from the start.

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Написао Permamuted, 12.01.2015 at 06:26

Написао clovis1122, 12.01.2015 at 00:47

However, for attack neutrals is always better to use infantries.

incorrect. If you are gw...

Nobody is talking about GW here, but about Offensive and Defensive units. Marines are good at attacking yeah, but as far as I know they are classified as "Stealth" units.

If we compare infantries vs every other unit, it wouldn't be surprised to say, infantry have advantage over all those, if you have all the upgrades. But hang on, we are comparing two units that were made for pure attack and defense purposes (Tanks and Infantries, if I was not clear) not the rest of the units which have other roll (of personality) in the game.... other function.

Написао Permamuted, 12.01.2015 at 06:26

...it is better to use militias. In terms of cost efficiency with almost all strats its often better to use militias. however in cases where you have money and want to maximise your expansion then you should use offensive units since you need to send less to overcome a neutral.

ABOUT THE MILITIAS:

Sure, if we take into account the merely attack - defense - cost values. However the range difference among those are pretty clean for say, that buying infantries > buying militias.

Extreme case still exist in which you have 8 reinforcements and you earn 10 per turn. Then, making militias would be the best election for all the strategies.

Now, about the usage of offensive units:

It is well-suggested by few experts of AtWar to mix offensive and defensive units for archive the best expansion possible. Few people knows this, you and me includes.

But you forgot to clarify that, it only work under some chases. When using offensive and defensive units you need to balance the cost or you will have a hard time over there. It really depends of the maps and funds whenever you need to be more reinforcements-efficient or more cost-efficient.

Must also add, whenever using tanks "FOR THE OFFENSIVE" are suggested or not, It doesn't contradict what I've say. Tanks are suggested for offensive as long as you have unlimited income ( or a short of reinfs/income in which your income is pretty likely enough for your reinfs)

My table about reinforcements and income stands regardless of this type of statement.

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Написао Permamuted, 12.01.2015 at 06:26

Написао clovis1122, 12.01.2015 at 00:47

- Infantries have more critical.

incorrect, as we discussed the other day, the crit stats displayed for ra tanks sm bombers and mos marines are incorrect. You can hit 10 pd inf with 10 sm bombers, the bombers will always win in spite of the pd inf having more defense.

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here is 5 battles of 10 ra tanks vs 10 pd inf.

http://i.gyazo.com/ad6747d2916431cb8dc72b0ecdb541cd.png

The tanks always win inspite of them having 9 attack and the inf having 10 def.

It is what i meant when i said this.

Написао Permamuted, 12.01.2015 at 06:26

the crit stats displayed for ra tanks sm bombers and mos marines are incorrect. You can hit 10 pd inf with 10 sm bombers, the bombers will always win in spite of the pd inf having more defense.

if you have the money, youre better off with the offensive units. ra tanks sm bombers and mos marines even have superior defense vs attacking inf. I remember challenging learsters mos europe with pd asia once. i was surprised at how his marine stacks were able to confront my pd stacks directly. i didnt expect such an even trade.

edit: extra tests to show

http://i.gyazo.com/11fd2c947df966aa3bbc7f976f86ba9a.png

http://i.gyazo.com/c6e8bc4e1f53187d9dfa041eae9544d1.png

the bomber tests showed a little variance, but you get the idea. in the cases of the bombers and the marines both have 8 attack vs 9 defense. 9/10 times they won, and this isnt even with particularly large stacks.

I partially agree on this. However, there is no enough proof laochra. Don't be like:

"I get bad rolls. For sure there is something wrong with this game. "

As you told me once with the TB system, you would need more than 100x test in order to say something like this. 5 test's are not enough. Might try to asking Ivan and Amok.

(btw, did you saw the infantries rolling 10, 19 or 20 hit? because I believe the +1 def against tanks got removed)

As a side note, I believe that the higher the max roll possible, the nicest the critical hits. But this is obvious knowledge as you say in your next statement.

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Написао Permamuted, 12.01.2015 at 06:26

Написао clovis1122, 12.01.2015 at 00:47

Many players would say "The tank have advantage on 1vs1vs1 battle (Actually 3vs3'ers wouldn't, since they don't know what is being reinforce-efficient)".

incorrect, if you understand basic math you should be able to get a grasp on reinforcement efficiency, this isnt influenced by what map you play. Since competitive players play to challenge each other and to optimise their gameplay, it is more likely they will understand these things than a player who focuses on learning to roleplay.

Won't argue about competitive players anymore.

Most of your post was boring attempts at saving face, however.

Написао clovis1122, 13.01.2015 at 19:30

I partially agree on this. However, there is no enough proof laochra. Don't be like:

"I get bad rolls. For sure there is something wrong with this game. "

partially agree? not enough proof? what more proof do you want? with lucky inf the pd inf have the same crit but more defense than the offensive units, yet from these tests alone the pd units won only once out of 15 trys. and these arent even large stacks.

How do you explain this trollvis? What other explanation is there other than that theres more to these units than the stats we are shown. Its obviously not a case of bad rolls. Dont patronise me. I#m not an idiot, i dont form conclusions from a few bad rolls.

Написао Permamuted, 13.01.2015 at 05:03

...

Yeah, you're right but Clovis' speculation is wrong nonetheless.

Написао Permamuted, 13.01.2015 at 22:14

Most of your post was boring attempts at saving face, however.

However nothing. You ignored the question.

Написао clovis1122, 13.01.2015 at 19:30

(btw, did you saw the infantries rolling 10, 19 or 20 hit? because I believe the +1 def against tanks got removed)

As a side note, I believe that the higher the max roll possible, the nicest the critical hits. But this is obvious knowledge as you say in your next statement.

>Leaf say I am wrong
>Leaf have no argument.

gg no re. Don't ever try to argue with him, he thinks that netherlands is more important than london. >> plus refuse to duel <<.

In spanish we say, "Dog that bark, dog that does not bite".

Написао clovis1122, 13.01.2015 at 22:47

Написао Permamuted, 13.01.2015 at 22:14

Most of your post was boring attempts at saving face, however.

However nothing. You ignored the question.

Написао clovis1122, 13.01.2015 at 19:30

(btw, did you saw the infantries rolling 10, 19 or 20 hit? because I believe the +1 def against tanks got removed)

As a side note, I believe that the higher the max roll possible, the nicest the critical hits. But this is obvious knowledge as you say in your next statement.

>Leaf say I am wrong
>Leaf have no argument.

gg no re. Don't ever try to argue with him, he thinks that netherlands is more important than london. >> plus refuse to duel <<.

In spanish we say, "Dog that bark, dog that does not bite".

Leaf was stating his opinion, not debating.

Написао clovis1122, 13.01.2015 at 22:47

Написао Permamuted, 13.01.2015 at 22:14

Most of your post was boring attempts at saving face, however.

However nothing. You ignored the question.

Написао clovis1122, 13.01.2015 at 19:30

(btw, did you saw the infantries rolling 10, 19 or 20 hit? because I believe the +1 def against tanks got removed)

As a side note, I believe that the higher the max roll possible, the nicest the critical hits. But this is obvious knowledge as you say in your next statement.

>Leaf say I am wrong
>Leaf have no argument.

gg no re. Don't ever try to argue with him, he thinks that netherlands is more important than london. >> plus refuse to duel <<.

In spanish we say, "Dog that bark, dog that does not bite".

Leaf> clovis anytime anywhere anyplace,

NL is more important than london everybody knows

Leaf is my babyboo bubblehead <3

And also remove pd as strat

...ye i know its not totaly the subject of the topic, but found this meme and had to post it

Написао clovis1122, 13.01.2015 at 22:47

However nothing. You ignored the question.

lol trollvis.

if youre referring to the question about the tank defense bonus for pd inf yea i ignored it, because its retarded. Youre either trolling or wasting my time and not using your brain, both offenses are enough for me to stop responding.

Написао Goblin, 14.01.2015 at 09:05

...ye i know its not totaly the subject of the topic, but found this meme and had to post it

lol xD
im curious..what exactly did you like from this picture?the ugly junky faggot in the middle?the bieber haired faggot on the right?or the other faggots wearing wifebeaters on a nightclub?or maybe was it the ugly teenager whores that i wouldnt even let my dog fuck..

Написао Khal.eesi, 14.01.2015 at 10:51

im curious..what exactly did you like from this picture?

where did i write that i liked anything?

Problem is Infantry is only unit that ppl use, which makes game boring......jus battle of infantry stacks in mos games, other units we cant use cause other units in terms of economy arent justified, and if i dont make infantry sttacks, my empire would crash, which makes other units not for using cause it would be supid, so infantry just should be defensive unit, instead attacking option, it makes them irreplacable in 99% games

Написао MURAD IV, 14.01.2015 at 15:33

Problem is Infantry is only unit that ppl use, which makes game boring......jus battle of infantry stacks in mos games, other units we cant use cause other units in terms of economy arent justified, and if i dont make infantry sttacks, my empire would crash, which makes other units not for using cause it would be supid, so infantry just should be defensive unit, instead attacking option, it makes them irreplacable in 99% games

What kind of settings you play, and what map? ...10k europe 4min is infantry mostly, but different game types certainly arent. And as i said, in 2min europe games already in turn 7 i have money to build tanks and later on, stealths, helicopters ...

Use imperialist... then you can buy everything.

I think it's fine...... takes 2 infantry to beat one infantry yet with RA one tank can beat one infantry (not all times). The fact of he matter is 2 infantry can be countered by a single infantry unit. Furthermore, PD is more than just attacking with stacks...... it's a matter of expansion and the use of your PD infantry to repel enemy attacks and take out more of their men to use your surviving troops to launch offensives. Anyone can take a strat and improve it. This isn;t about infantry being OP, this is about tanks simply being underpowered. No need to nerf infantry, something that will completely change the game in regards to infantry, but simply improve tank whther it be lowering cost (my recomendation), increasing attack, or more HP and/or range.

With That said, at war is about strategy, not so much realism (no offense Amok and Ivan D=). If at war was truly realistic, airplanes would have unlimited range (because does it really take a week to fly around the world?).

Написао Goblin, 14.01.2015 at 09:05

<image>

This describes in excellent detail why I haven't won a single game with Perfect Defense, ever. It requires more thought, and as someone who (still!) doesn't know the game very well, that's, just... meh.

Which is I guess why I don't play PD any more.

Написао THE_Militia, 14.01.2015 at 17:38

Use imperialist... then you can buy everything.

My favorite strategy, use it all the times, i dont talk ppl about tanks underpowered, i talk about cavalry,dragoons etc underpowered vs infantry

Написао MURAD IV, 15.01.2015 at 06:36

My favorite strategy, use it all the times, i dont talk ppl about tanks underpowered, i talk about cavalry,dragoons etc underpowered vs infantry

But thats the custom maps problem and you should ask the map maker to balance things out ...not asking for a default units change.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Написао Acquiesce, 15.01.2015 at 08:29

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

then y u tried to fix me? ;-;

You can beat PD. Here is demonstration how;

Your top priority is to stop PD player from expanding too much,avoiding this step will lead to defeat. In 1 turn if you are close to each other,stop his expansion like Ukraine vs Germany,attack Austria,Sweden,etc. 2. Take countries as much as you can.More countries more money and units,attack him at low defense city's,break walls so that he can't defend every city,take important city's from him,of course they will be good protected but then attack with more units.I have beaten many PD players with GW,Blitzkrieg,SM,PD vs PD, you can also try Ukraine imperialist,so good really,you can buy tons of tanks,attack with lot of units,and always have money.

PD isnt op u all just crying because u cant handle it and u want to boost tanks cause u spam em like shit.Tanks in ra have 9 att inf has 7 def in pd and u suggest boosting tanks? Noobs gtfo..........

Написао Nations, 16.01.2015 at 07:45

PD isnt op u all just crying because u cant handle it and u want to boost tanks cause u spam em like shit.Tanks in ra have 9 att inf has 7 def in pd and u suggest boosting tanks? Noobs gtfo..........

Infantries have 10 total defense in PD (against Tanks). Plus, they cost half the money of one RA tank.

You forgot to add the bonuses the infantries have.

Написао clovis1122, 16.01.2015 at 08:18

Написао Nations, 16.01.2015 at 07:45

PD isnt op u all just crying because u cant handle it and u want to boost tanks cause u spam em like shit.Tanks in ra have 9 att inf has 7 def in pd and u suggest boosting tanks? Noobs gtfo..........

Infantries have 10 total defense in PD (against Tanks). Plus, they cost half the money of one RA tank.

You forgot to add the bonuses the infantries have.

Support but not -2 . -1 will be perfect.