Free palestine

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 02:06

Написао Helly, 27.12.2016 at 01:13

Geuss what? If I was born in Syria or iraq, instead of Germany geuss what I'd be? Islamic because there is no choice, a child can not choose, a teenager can not choose, a adult can not choose, it's islam or death

This is not completely true. While I understand your perspective, you have to understand that Muslim people's action do not necessarily reflect Islam. For example, ISIS does not reflect Islam, as the KKK does not reflect Christianity. The actions you describe are like my example but to a lesser degree. What you're describing is Wahaabyism, a more extreme and minority way of thought in Islam. Wahabyism is practiced in Saudi Arabia, hence KSA's extreme image. However in Egypt, and most of the Arab world, we practice normal moderate Islam, where you will not die for disbelieving. You will not get tortured, imprisoned, or any other thing it is perceived will happen. Obviously, you will face cultural difficulties being a minority, the same way a Muslim would in USA.

Написао Helly, 27.12.2016 at 01:13

If a greek marries an Arab geuss what? Now she's muslim, no fucking choice and that is what is wrong with your culture

Again, not true for most places. In the majority of the Islamic nation's, probably excluding KSA, Muslims marry people of the book normally and without ramification.

Написао Helly, 27.12.2016 at 01:31

If everyone was as level headed as you are in the middle east there would not be these sorts of issues. If jews could live a life the same as you and worship there god in there own churches and supports there own communities, in arabia, I'd have nothing to fight about. But ask yourself are there any churches in mecca? Tolerance is important, there is a place called Dearborn in michigan, they make world famous beef suasage, it's a place with 88% islamic community in a christian nation who can have the same exact life I can. That's why I disagree with all of these discussions.

I try to emulate my prophet, and the morals he lives by. I think any extremism or deviation from the peaceful origin of religion stems back to the following of cultural contexts and traditions whether right or wrong, rather than following the foundations and origins of the religion. Mohamed (peace and blessings be upon him) did not hate Jews, or Christians, or anyone at all. Hatred was an emotion never displayed by him, and that is what all people should attempt to emulate.

Excluding Saudi Arabia (which relates back to Wahaabyism), Christians have churches and worship God (not their God, but God, because we all worship the same God), and Jews were the same before Israel was made.They'd have lived in peace in Palestine, and the rest of the Arab world, but instead the west needed influence in the region, so they created this divide and tended to the Zionist sentiments which some Jewish people held.

This is not neccassarly true, my girl friends family had to leave egypt because she decided she did not agree with traditional islam and her brother was a homosexual. While I agree with your stance on the creation of Israel, it is no longer reversalable and would be unethical to displace, dismantal, or destroy what they have built now, the only humane way would be be the two state system that's been proposed for generations. Isreal leaving West bank, and eastern jurusalem, and in return hostilities from its neighbors should cease.

Edit: I should probably note there exile was not due to egyptian law but rather people refusing there money for services, death threats, and vandalism.

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 01:54

Not hard to put up a face and say you don't hate Jews.  How would I know? You can be part of the Muslim brotherhood or a sympathiser of Hamas or other terror groups. Or something else along the line.

your ill-faith in me reflects your ill-faith for Muslims in general, and mirrors your own negative emotions for Muslims, but not mine for Jews.

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 01:54

During world war 1, the British promised to help the Jews establish a Jewish state on the land of the ancient Jewish Kingdom if they assist in the war efforts against Germany. Which they did.

And in 1917 the Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour sent a letter to the leader of the Jewish community in Britain. Which says :

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

It is not in their rights or morally correct to split up a country to create a Jewish state. To create an establishment and communities within a nation for Jews is alright, but what they did is take Palestinian's land - land where people lived and work - and gave it to the Jewish community. They displaced citizens of Palestine because of an alliance with the Jews during the war, and again tended to their Zionist sentiments whilst creating a strategical ally in the region.

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 01:54

I would like also to mention that before Israel was created Palestine was known as a Jewish land even had a flag with Jewish flavour, as we can see from this picture that was taken from a French encyclopedia from 1939:


It's in the second row from right side, 2 flags blow.


Clearer view.

Which reinforces my point of a common nation for all ethnicities, not taking from one to create another.

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 01:54

Arabs protested the Balfour declaration and started killing Jews in pogroms. And thus Britain splitted Palestine to 2 entities, one on the east side of the Jordan river called Transjordan on the river name, for Arabs, and Palestine for Jews. The British forcibly evacuated the Jews from the Jordanian area even though those Jews bought those lands fairly, yet the British didn't transport the Arabs in Palestine to Jordan.
Same scenario happened 20 years later with the Arabs in Palestine asking a syate for themselves. When the UN partition was up for vote the world agreed to 2 states for 2 people. The Arab world including the Palestinian Arabs rejected this decision and lunched a massive war of annihilation against the Jews of Israel, chanting to throw us to the sea, or finish what Hitler started. They lost
Egypt held Gaza, Jordan held the West Bank, for 19 years! Why in those 19 years the Palestinian Arabs haven't formed their nation? Because there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, never was. This is just a way to hurt Israel since any war the Arabs lunched against Israel was a miserable failure.

When Britain takes your land and puts new people on it to create a strictly Jewish state, you have to expect a reaction. There is no way anyone will stand by and see their country get taken away.

Palestine is a nation - whether majority Jewish or Muslim irrelevant -, but Israel is a creation. A creation of the UK and the west.

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 01:54

Israel is not a puppet state of the West. USA had embargo on Israel for a long time from its foundation until around 60s. They did it to curry favour with the Arabs. When USA realise Israel is a strong country that isn't going to fade anytime soon, they started to foster a relationship with our country. And the military aid is beneficial for both sides, however Israel can continue to stand without it.
Egypt also receive this military aid.
This was part of the deal when Israel and Egypt signed peace treaty, which included giving the land of Sinai peninsula. A land that is 3 times bigger than Israel that also have natural gases, oil reserve, and strategic depth importance back to Egypt.

Despite receiving the same amount or military aid as Israel, how is Egypt's military? Not anything close to Israel.

USA isn't the only nation of the west. Regardless, if USA had opposed the creation of Israel from the beginning, then it wouldn't have been created.

This peace treaty was simply returning what is rightfully ours.

What you're arguing is irrelevant. There is a blatant incompetence/corruption in Egyptian leadership. Has been for years. This however, does not relate to the issue of Palestine and the creation of Israel. You are simply defending anything that relates to your country for the sake of it. Also, you may have a much higher defense budget and more advanced weapons, but in the end of the day, our numbers prove to be a powerhouse. Again, irrelevant.

Написао Helly, 27.12.2016 at 02:17

This is not neccassarly true, my girl friends family had to leave egypt because she decided she did not agree with traditional islam and her brother was a homosexual. While I agree with your stance on the creation of Israel, it is no longer reversalable and would be unethical to displace, dismantal, or destroy what they have built now, the only humane way would be be the two state system that's been proposed for generations. Isreal leaving West bank, and eastern jurusalem, and in return hostilities from its neighbors should cease.

Edit: I should probably note there exile was not due to egyptian law but rather people refusing there money for services, death threats, and vandalism.

Yes, which is misinterpretation of religion by Muslims, but not a fault in Islam itself.

And yes again, it is unfortunately irreversible, but Israel needs to recognize Palestine as a neighbor state, and recognize the borders set, and evacuate any areas that belong to Palestine.

Also, it is quite saddening that Palestine is a non-member state in the UN while Israel is. If anything, it should be the opposite. Even though Palestine has the support of the majority of international community (as seen in the most recent UN resolution vote), it is not yet recognized. I wonder why.

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 02:43

Написао Helly, 27.12.2016 at 02:17

This is not neccassarly true, my girl friends family had to leave egypt because she decided she did not agree with traditional islam and her brother was a homosexual. While I agree with your stance on the creation of Israel, it is no longer reversalable and would be unethical to displace, dismantal, or destroy what they have built now, the only humane way would be be the two state system that's been proposed for generations. Isreal leaving West bank, and eastern jurusalem, and in return hostilities from its neighbors should cease.

Edit: I should probably note there exile was not due to egyptian law but rather people refusing there money for services, death threats, and vandalism.

Yes, which is misinterpretation of religion by Muslims, but not a fault in Islam itself.

And yes again, it is unfortunately irreversible, but Israel needs to recognize Palestine as a neighbor state, and recognize the borders set, and evacuate any areas that belong to Palestine.

Also, it is quite saddening that Palestine is a non-member state in the UN while Israel is. If anything, it should be the opposite. Even though Palestine has the support of the majority of international community (as seen in the most recent UN resolution vote), it is not yet recognized. I wonder why.

Probably because of the way the un works, can't the United states just block anything it doesn't agree with? Per say membership in the un. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm a little ignorant to un laws as it is basically powerless in my country. Which if that's the case goes back to what you said about a western foothold, being more important then human life.

Написао Helly, 27.12.2016 at 02:49

Probably because of the way the un works, can't the United states just block anything it doesn't agree with? Per say membership in the un. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm a little ignorant to un laws as it is basically powerless in my country. Which if that's the case goes back to what you said about a western foothold, being more important then human life.

exactly, which is how Israel has been protected for years from any decision that takes place in the Security Council (the only place the P5 have veto powers), and why Netenyahu reacted the way he did when the Obama didn't protect him. I'm not sure if membership passes through the General Assembly (no veto) or Security Council. Regardless, the fact that Palestine isn't recognized is a statement in itself of the regressive attitude of the west towards Palestine.

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 02:32

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 01:54

Not hard to put up a face and say you don't hate Jews.  How would I know? You can be part of the Muslim brotherhood or a sympathiser of Hamas or other terror groups. Or something else along the line.

your ill-faith in me reflects your ill-faith for Muslims in general, and mirrors your own negative emotions for Muslims, but not mine for Jews.

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 01:54

During world war 1, the British promised to help the Jews establish a Jewish state on the land of the ancient Jewish Kingdom if they assist in the war efforts against Germany. Which they did.

And in 1917 the Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour sent a letter to the leader of the Jewish community in Britain. Which says :

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

It is not in their rights or morally correct to split up a country to create a Jewish state. To create an establishment and communities within a nation for Jews is alright, but what they did is take Palestinian's land - land where people lived and work - and gave it to the Jewish community. They displaced citizens of Palestine because of an alliance with the Jews during the war, and again tended to their Zionist sentiments whilst creating a strategical ally in the region.

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 01:54

I would like also to mention that before Israel was created Palestine was known as a Jewish land even had a flag with Jewish flavour, as we can see from this picture that was taken from a French encyclopedia from 1939:


It's in the second row from right side, 2 flags blow.


Clearer view.

Which reinforces my point of a common nation for all ethnicities, not taking from one to create another.

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 01:54

Arabs protested the Balfour declaration and started killing Jews in pogroms. And thus Britain splitted Palestine to 2 entities, one on the east side of the Jordan river called Transjordan on the river name, for Arabs, and Palestine for Jews. The British forcibly evacuated the Jews from the Jordanian area even though those Jews bought those lands fairly, yet the British didn't transport the Arabs in Palestine to Jordan.
Same scenario happened 20 years later with the Arabs in Palestine asking a syate for themselves. When the UN partition was up for vote the world agreed to 2 states for 2 people. The Arab world including the Palestinian Arabs rejected this decision and lunched a massive war of annihilation against the Jews of Israel, chanting to throw us to the sea, or finish what Hitler started. They lost
Egypt held Gaza, Jordan held the West Bank, for 19 years! Why in those 19 years the Palestinian Arabs haven't formed their nation? Because there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, never was. This is just a way to hurt Israel since any war the Arabs lunched against Israel was a miserable failure.

When Britain takes your land and puts new people on it to create a strictly Jewish state, you have to expect a reaction. There is no way anyone will stand by and see their country get taken away.

Palestine is a nation - whether majority Jewish or Muslim irrelevant -, but Israel is a creation. A creation of the UK and the west.

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 01:54

Israel is not a puppet state of the West. USA had embargo on Israel for a long time from its foundation until around 60s. They did it to curry favour with the Arabs. When USA realise Israel is a strong country that isn't going to fade anytime soon, they started to foster a relationship with our country. And the military aid is beneficial for both sides, however Israel can continue to stand without it.
Egypt also receive this military aid.
This was part of the deal when Israel and Egypt signed peace treaty, which included giving the land of Sinai peninsula. A land that is 3 times bigger than Israel that also have natural gases, oil reserve, and strategic depth importance back to Egypt.

Despite receiving the same amount or military aid as Israel, how is Egypt's military? Not anything close to Israel.

USA isn't the only nation of the west. Regardless, if USA had opposed the creation of Israel from the beginning, then it wouldn't have been created.

This peace treaty was simply returning what is rightfully ours.

What you're arguing is irrelevant. There is a blatant incompetence/corruption in Egyptian leadership. Has been for years. This however, does not relate to the issue of Palestine and the creation of Israel. You are simply defending anything that relates to your country for the sake of it. Also, you may have a much higher defense budget and more advanced weapons, but in the end of the day, our numbers prove to be a powerhouse. Again, irrelevant.

I don't trust you based on your distorted not historically supported statements. Prove me wrong, otherwise I stand by what I say.

Britain haven't moved any Arab from Israel (Palestine) to another country, however, they did moved Jews from Jordan to Palestine. Jews that bought those lands lawfully from Arabs, owned those lands but still were forcibly transferred to Jewish towns in Palestine.  Something Israel have never done in all its history to Arabs in Israel.

During 1947/8 war, Arab leaders of other countries encouraged the Arabs who lived in Palestine to escape because of fake horror stories about the Jewish soldiers, those Arabs fleed to any neighbouring Arab country. They were promised they will return once the annihilation war against the Jews is over. Fortunately they failed.
The Arab world in response kicked all the Jews that lived for hundreds of years and some even thousands from their countries and confiscated anything they had, leaving them with nothing. Israel accepted those homeless Jews, and integrated them into the society.
What the arab worls did? instead of integrating those Arabs in their own nations they kept them in refugee camps. They were less than 1 million at that time, now they exceed 15 million. Crazy.

Most of these Palestinians are descendents of work immigrants that came from all across the Arab world in the 19th century when Jewish settlers bought lands from ottoman empire and local people. Even the former deceased leader of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation that control the west bank as the Palestinian Authority, Yasser Arafat was born in Egypt. How and why he fought for Palestine when he's Egyptian like you? Main reason: destruction of Israel by any means and methods.

Also Britain created Egypt, created Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and more around the world. Those countries were all made by multiple ethnicities, without consideration for self identity for the people. We can see the result in Syria for example,  where Kurds, Alawis, Assyrians, Aramics and more fighting each other. And in Israel we do not discriminate any non Jews. Even during and after the 1947/8 war the Israeli leadership pleaded the Arabs not to escape and to remain and be part of the Jewish state.

Israel is not a creation of the West. It's creation of the UN, Palestine would have been too if it didn't rejected the decision. Theodore Hertzel, from the 19th century advocate the establishment of Jewish state because of the endless mistreatment of Jews in Europe. He pushed this with all his heart, he predicted something horrible will happen if we don't create our own country. Which happened 50 years later.

USA and USSR were not allowed to take votes on the matter.

When USA conquered Texas from Mexico did it give it back for peace? Answer is obvious. We gave your country a land that we weren't forced to give for peace. The Palestinians have 22 Arab nations to inhabitant, and close to 40 Muslim states. 
And how can you say what happen in Israel is "not anything less"? What happen here is nothing close to what happen in Syria. Not close to anything you ever imagine. I would compare it to the USA police confronting the black protesters, only that the protesters in Israel are driven from racism, hate, propaganda and the idea of actually destroying a state and killing its Jewish inhabitants.
When you Muslim and Arab people start to realise what is more important, your government will cease to be so corrupted, as much as it's now. They use the Palestine conflict to manipulate you and you fell for it.

So what I gathered here is uk takes land from ottomans, promises it to rich jews in the UK for economic support, war is won, creates a new country Arabs retaliate naturally all the muslims leave because of war, Israel doesn't allow them to come back, uses its people as a shield from persecution, while slowly eating up all the Palestinian clay. Now I feel sorry for the people on both sides of this that are innocent, because if Isreal wins all the Palestinians will eventually be assimilated or exiled, and if the Arabs win after years of hostilities the Jewish populace will be tortured, while what needs to happen is coexistence, this entire situation is fucked up.

It seems to me people forget that a government rarely represents it's people these days and the punishment the jews would in dear if Isreal fell I could not stomach, and yet what there government is doing to Palestine is also unquestionably barbaric and unethical.

Написао Guest, 26.12.2016 at 20:29

zionist steals palestine's land..and now that zionist have most of the land..they want more. Why did you zionist build on gaza's land? You controlled west bank. Stop stealing their land..14-0 votes..Free Palestine

province palestina = roman new name for judea after the jewish rebellion, if there actually was organised people around that land in the 1400 years arabs dominated that lands i would expect them to develop or grow their population there, but apperantly 1400 years later they still could'nt refill the ruins of the hellenic cities built thousands of years before them, history will also tell you that since zionist movement began more muslims migrated into palestina than jews.

zionist firstly captured gaza strip in 67 war from egypt after they used it to terrorise israeli citizens for 20 years, zionist actaully proposed gaza strip back to egypt as part of the peace agreement but they did'nt accept to take it back, so if you got land that you don't want full of terrorists use that distance and remoteness to terorrise you how would you handle it? the oldy israeli theory thoguht that it will be easier to struggle if we would have our own parts there, judea and samaria is diffrent story

Написао Rock Lee, 27.12.2016 at 03:56

Написао Guest, 26.12.2016 at 20:29

zionist steals palestine's land..and now that zionist have most of the land..they want more. Why did you zionist build on gaza's land? You controlled west bank. Stop stealing their land..14-0 votes..Free Palestine

province palestina = roman new name for judea after the jewish rebellion, if there actually was organised people around that land in the 1400 years arabs dominated that lands i would expect them to develop or grow their population there, but apperantly 1400 years later they still could'nt refill the ruins of the hellenic cities built thousands of years before them

zionist firstly captured gaza strip in 67 war from egypt after they used it to terrorise israeli citizens for 20 years, zionist actaully proposed gaza strip back to egypt but they did'nt want it back, so if you got land that you don't want full of terrorists use that distance and remoteness how would you handle it?

You forgot to mention the the name "Palestina" is incorrect pronunciation of the word "Plishtim" , which means in Hebrew "Invaders". A name the Jewish Kingdom gave to their arch nemesis. They came from the sea (most likely from Cyprus, or Crete) and controlled the area that is now known as Gaza strip. They don't exist nowadays, therefore any connection with the Palestinian people of today is incorrect. This was Roman's way of revenge on the Jews for the rebellion attempt.

Написао Helly, 27.12.2016 at 03:20

and yet what there government is doing to Palestine is also unquestionably barbaric and unethical.

well, i adore that you try to understand the situation entirely, but you want to talk about it? i really don't think us as barbaric or enethical, lot of times things are'nt as they seem

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 03:01

I don't trust you based on your distorted not historically supported statements. Prove me wrong, otherwise I stand by what I say.

Britain haven't moved any Arab from Israel (Palestine) to another country, however, they did moved Jews from Jordan to Palestine. Jews that bought those lands lawfully from Arabs, owned those lands but still were forcibly transferred to Jewish towns in Palestine.  Something Israel have never done in all its history to Arabs in Israel.

During 1947/8 war, Arab leaders of other countries encouraged the Arabs who lived in Palestine to escape because of fake horror stories about the Jewish soldiers, those Arabs fleed to any neighbouring Arab country. They were promised they will return once the annihilation war against the Jews is over. Fortunately they failed.
The Arab world in response kicked all the Jews that lived for hundreds of years and some even thousands from their countries and confiscated anything they had, leaving them with nothing. Israel accepted those homeless Jews, and integrated them into the society.
What the arab worls did? instead of integrating those Arabs in their own nations they kept them in refugee camps. They were less than 1 million at that time, now they exceed 15 million. Crazy.

Most of these Palestinians are descendents of work immigrants that came from all across the Arab world in the 19th century when Jewish settlers bought lands from ottoman empire and local people. Even the former deceased leader of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation that control the west bank as the Palestinian Authority, Yasser Arafat was born in Egypt. How and why he fought for Palestine when he's Egyptian like you? Main reason: destruction of Israel by any means and methods.

Also Britain created Egypt, created Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and more around the world. Those countries were all made by multiple ethnicities, without consideration for self identity for the people. We can see the result in Syria for example,  where Kurds, Alawis, Assyrians, Aramics and more fighting each other. And in Israel we do not discriminate any non Jews. Even during and after the 1947/8 war the Israeli leadership pleaded the Arabs not to escape and to remain and be part of the Jewish state.

Israel is not a creation of the West. It's creation of the UN, Palestine would have been too if it didn't rejected the decision. Theodore Hertzel, from the 19th century advocate the establishment of Jewish state because of the endless mistreatment of Jews in Europe. He pushed this with all his heart, he predicted something horrible will happen if we don't create our own country. Which happened 50 years later.

USA and USSR were not allowed to take votes on the matter.

When USA conquered Texas from Mexico did it give it back for peace? Answer is obvious. We gave your country a land that we weren't forced to give for peace. The Palestinians have 22 Arab nations to inhabitant, and close to 40 Muslim states. 
And how can you day what happen in Israel is "not anything less"? What happen here is nothing close to what happen in Syria. Not close to anything you ever imagine. I would compare it to the USA police confronting the black protesters, only that the protesters in Israel are driven from racism, hate, propaganda and the idea of actually destroying a state and killing its Jewish inhabitants.
When you Muslim and Arab people start to realise what is more important, your government will cease to be so corrupted, as much as it's now. They use the Palestine conflict to manipulate you and you fell for it.

First of all, it isn't a matter of who moving who, but it is a matter of preferring the creation of a separate Jewish state rather than a united nation with multiple ethnicities: Palestine.

Second of all, you're escaping the point. You keep throwing these historical events and numbers that happened AFTER Israel was created. My point is that Israel shouldn't have been created in the first place, but remained a united Palestine, housing Muslims, Christians, and Jews, like how the rest of the Arab nations were before Israel was created.

Thirdly, having multiple ethnicities in a nation is natural. You're claiming that Syria is a result of multiple ethnicities, while it is actually a result of a corrupt regime and a backlash from the people. Also, Britain didn't "create" Egypt, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia. It recognized them as nations and gave them independence. The difference between this and Israel is Britain didn't give Israel independence, it gave Israel land. Land that belonged to Palestine (regardless of the ethnicity of people leaving there, whether Jewish or Muslim or Christian).

Furthermore, we were victorious in the 1973 war, and retook Sinai. The treaty merely solidified that.

Also, I didn't say the situation in Palestine isn't less than Syria. What I said is that the killings in Syria don't make the killings in Palestine any less significant. Reread my statement.

To conclude my argument: if you only wanted to live in peace, then relocation anywhere was the option. However, what you wanted, relating back to your Zionist sentiments, is a country to govern. I respect that, but not when you take the land of another country that is unwilling to give it. What Britain did was make two states in the land of one. Conflict was bound to rise, and that isn't justification for shoving Palestinians aside and making settlements on their land, while you live on the rest of their land.




Free Palestine, Free Palestine.

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 04:13

First of all, it isn't a matter of who moving who, but it is a matter of preferring the creation of a separate Jewish state rather than a united nation with multiple ethnicities: Palestine.

Second of all, you're escaping the point. You keep throwing these historical events and numbers that happened AFTER Israel was created. My point is that Israel shouldn't have been created in the first place, but remained a united Palestine, housing Muslims, Christians, and Jews, like how the rest of the Arab nations were before Israel was created.

sorry, but it's naive to think that jews could just live in peace under muslim regime, when it's easy they don't think twice before using force.

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 04:13

To conclude my argument: if you only wanted to live in peace, then relocation anywhere was the option. However, what you wanted, relating back to your Zionist sentiments, is a country to govern. I respect that, but not when you take the land of another country that is unwilling to give it. What Britain did was make two states in the land of one. Conflict was bound to rise, and that isn't justification for shoving Palestinians aside and making settlements on their land, while you live on the rest of their land.

Well, we have a misunderstanding here, you are examing nowdays situation when arabs have their national identity and movement and have organised into one people (let's assume that) and think it was a mistake. back when zionism was founded it was'snt the same way, you have european historians documents about the region in the 19th and the 18th century to understand the situation there, but let's make things clear, the same way jews migrated to plaestina in the 20th century arabs migrated to palestina too, according to the british documents there were more muslim migrators than jewish migrators, i will talk about it once again, if the people there really have some identity as natives they would try to develope the region and grow, they had 1400 years to, we know it did'nt happen, hellenic palestina was more developed and higher population than muslim palestina (and muslims breed quickly), if they really did care at the point they would'nt sell so many lands to the jews, but at that period the lands were owned mostely but foreign arabs not even living there.

You all are so boring....

Написао Rock Lee, 27.12.2016 at 04:18

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 04:13

First of all, it isn't a matter of who moving who, but it is a matter of preferring the creation of a separate Jewish state rather than a united nation with multiple ethnicities: Palestine.

Second of all, you're escaping the point. You keep throwing these historical events and numbers that happened AFTER Israel was created. My point is that Israel shouldn't have been created in the first place, but remained a united Palestine, housing Muslims, Christians, and Jews, like how the rest of the Arab nations were before Israel was created.

sorry, but it's naive to think that jews could just live in peace under muslim regime, when it's easy they don't think twice before using force.

They used to before Israel, and they could've continued so.

Написао Guest, 27.12.2016 at 01:42

Listen. We muslims jave strong belief in our own religion. We are a devout muslim. There ate christians that convert to islam without force. They did it willingly..

you know, when i recruited to the IDF i discvoered a funny thing - barely half of the soldiers in my base (in miserable occupied west bank) were arabs (druze, beduhin, chrisitian, cherches), not muslim arabs ofcourse (that exists too), they were'nt hostile or depressed, they did'nt have to recruit, they chose to, they had to pass many exams and interviews before they could but they did it, you know why? according to them they better live under israeli regime, why? cus for centuries before zionism muslims tortured and persued constantly and in the most melicious ways everyone who ai'nt muslim enough including arabs.

History will tell you that the same thing happened in every place muslim arrived to and that's part of the way islam rised in first place, and even if you nowdays you depend on liberal nations and can't do it openly, you find your own way to aggresse them.

Написао Rock Lee, 27.12.2016 at 04:26

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 04:13

To conclude my argument: if you only wanted to live in peace, then relocation anywhere was the option. However, what you wanted, relating back to your Zionist sentiments, is a country to govern. I respect that, but not when you take the land of another country that is unwilling to give it. What Britain did was make two states in the land of one. Conflict was bound to rise, and that isn't justification for shoving Palestinians aside and making settlements on their land, while you live on the rest of their land.

Well, we have a misunderstanding here, you are examing nowdays situation when arabs have their national identity and movement and have organised into one people (let's assume that) and think it was a mistake. back when zionism was founded it was'snt the same way, you have european historians documents about the region in the 19th and the 18th century to understand the situation there, but let's make things clear, the same way jews migrated to plaestina in the 20th century arabs migrated to palestina too, according to the british documents there were more muslim migrators than jewish migrators, i will talk about it once again, if the people there really have some identity as natives they would try to develope the region and grow, they had 1400 years to, we know it did'nt happen, hellenic palestina was more developed and higher population than muslim palestina (and muslims breed quickly), if they really did care at the point they would'nt sell so many lands to the jews, but at that period the lands were owned mostely but foreign arabs not even living there.

Yes, and it was Palestine, where both Jews and Arabs lived. It continued to be Palestine (under different names, British Mandate of Palestine, part of the Ottoman empire, etc) until Israel was created. It was one, and now it is forcefully two, one oppressed and one free. See anything wrong with that?

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 04:33

They used to before Israel, and they could've continued so.

well life under muslim regime are'nt so glorious are they? history is full of stories and massacares and dispriviliges to all minorities (read my comment above)

my grandma family used to live in tunisia 100 years ago, then the mayor of the town they used to live in wanted to marry one of her aunt and when they family refused they just murdered them, what was left of the family arrived to france as refugees and during time part of them moved to Israel, in the recent years the rest of my family moved from france to Israel because they could'nt stand the muslim population there bullying them.

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 04:39

Написао Rock Lee, 27.12.2016 at 04:26

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 04:13

To conclude my argument: if you only wanted to live in peace, then relocation anywhere was the option. However, what you wanted, relating back to your Zionist sentiments, is a country to govern. I respect that, but not when you take the land of another country that is unwilling to give it. What Britain did was make two states in the land of one. Conflict was bound to rise, and that isn't justification for shoving Palestinians aside and making settlements on their land, while you live on the rest of their land.

Well, we have a misunderstanding here, you are examing nowdays situation when arabs have their national identity and movement and have organised into one people (let's assume that) and think it was a mistake. back when zionism was founded it was'snt the same way, you have european historians documents about the region in the 19th and the 18th century to understand the situation there, but let's make things clear, the same way jews migrated to plaestina in the 20th century arabs migrated to palestina too, according to the british documents there were more muslim migrators than jewish migrators, i will talk about it once again, if the people there really have some identity as natives they would try to develope the region and grow, they had 1400 years to, we know it did'nt happen, hellenic palestina was more developed and higher population than muslim palestina (and muslims breed quickly), if they really did care at the point they would'nt sell so many lands to the jews, but at that period the lands were owned mostely but foreign arabs not even living there.

Yes, and it was Palestine, where both Jews and Arabs lived. It continued to be Palestine (under different names, British Mandate of Palestine, part of the Ottoman empire, etc) until Israel was created. It was one, and now it is forcefully two, one oppressed and one free. See anything wrong with that?

you chose to ignore my claims with that theory so let's be practicall, you kept roman name for the region, does that mean to indicate anything or privilige anyone? does a shithole that does'nt represent anyone should be considered as the successor of roman palestina? or the same shithole that it was 300 or 800 years before?

splitting "united palestine" was'snt a mistake, it was the only way to do anything safely in that region.

Написао Rock Lee, 27.12.2016 at 04:43

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 04:33

They used to before Israel, and they could've continued so.

well life under muslim regime are'nt so glorious are they? history is full of stories and massacares and dispriviliges to all minorities (read my comment above)

my grandma family used to live in tunisia 100 years ago, then the mayor of the town they used to live in wanted to marry one of her aunt and when they family refused they just murdered them, what was left of the family arrived to france as refugees and during time part of them moved to Israel, in the recent years the rest of my family moved from france to Israel because they could'nt stand the muslim population there bullying them.

I'm sorry for what happened to your family, but it isn't like that everywhere, and that isn't Islam. That is brutality by people misinterpreting religion or not interpreting it at all. I get the wanting to establish your own state, but that still doesn't justify what happened to Palestine and Palestinians, as nothing justifies the actions perpetrated against your family.

In the end of the day, what happened has happened, and we should now look for solutions rather than pointing fingers. Palestinians need to live as much as Israelis do, and considering so, emptying the settlements on their shrunken land or getting them UN recognition isn't too much to ask for.

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 04:13

Написао Netzer, 27.12.2016 at 03:01

I don't trust you based on your distorted not historically supported statements. Prove me wrong, otherwise I stand by what I say.

Britain haven't moved any Arab from Israel (Palestine) to another country, however, they did moved Jews from Jordan to Palestine. Jews that bought those lands lawfully from Arabs, owned those lands but still were forcibly transferred to Jewish towns in Palestine.  Something Israel have never done in all its history to Arabs in Israel.

During 1947/8 war, Arab leaders of other countries encouraged the Arabs who lived in Palestine to escape because of fake horror stories about the Jewish soldiers, those Arabs fleed to any neighbouring Arab country. They were promised they will return once the annihilation war against the Jews is over. Fortunately they failed.
The Arab world in response kicked all the Jews that lived for hundreds of years and some even thousands from their countries and confiscated anything they had, leaving them with nothing. Israel accepted those homeless Jews, and integrated them into the society.
What the arab worls did? instead of integrating those Arabs in their own nations they kept them in refugee camps. They were less than 1 million at that time, now they exceed 15 million. Crazy.

Most of these Palestinians are descendents of work immigrants that came from all across the Arab world in the 19th century when Jewish settlers bought lands from ottoman empire and local people. Even the former deceased leader of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation that control the west bank as the Palestinian Authority, Yasser Arafat was born in Egypt. How and why he fought for Palestine when he's Egyptian like you? Main reason: destruction of Israel by any means and methods.

Also Britain created Egypt, created Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and more around the world. Those countries were all made by multiple ethnicities, without consideration for self identity for the people. We can see the result in Syria for example,  where Kurds, Alawis, Assyrians, Aramics and more fighting each other. And in Israel we do not discriminate any non Jews. Even during and after the 1947/8 war the Israeli leadership pleaded the Arabs not to escape and to remain and be part of the Jewish state.

Israel is not a creation of the West. It's creation of the UN, Palestine would have been too if it didn't rejected the decision. Theodore Hertzel, from the 19th century advocate the establishment of Jewish state because of the endless mistreatment of Jews in Europe. He pushed this with all his heart, he predicted something horrible will happen if we don't create our own country. Which happened 50 years later.

USA and USSR were not allowed to take votes on the matter.

When USA conquered Texas from Mexico did it give it back for peace? Answer is obvious. We gave your country a land that we weren't forced to give for peace. The Palestinians have 22 Arab nations to inhabitant, and close to 40 Muslim states. 
And how can you day what happen in Israel is "not anything less"? What happen here is nothing close to what happen in Syria. Not close to anything you ever imagine. I would compare it to the USA police confronting the black protesters, only that the protesters in Israel are driven from racism, hate, propaganda and the idea of actually destroying a state and killing its Jewish inhabitants.
When you Muslim and Arab people start to realise what is more important, your government will cease to be so corrupted, as much as it's now. They use the Palestine conflict to manipulate you and you fell for it.

First of all, it isn't a matter of who moving who, but it is a matter of preferring the creation of a separate Jewish state rather than a united nation with multiple ethnicities: Palestine.

Second of all, you're escaping the point. You keep throwing these historical events and numbers that happened AFTER Israel was created. My point is that Israel shouldn't have been created in the first place, but remained a united Palestine, housing Muslims, Christians, and Jews, like how the rest of the Arab nations were before Israel was created.

Thirdly, having multiple ethnicities in a nation is natural. You're claiming that Syria is a result of multiple ethnicities, while it is actually a result of a corrupt regime and a backlash from the people. Also, Britain didn't "create" Egypt, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia. It recognized them as nations and gave them independence. The difference between this and Israel is Britain didn't give Israel independence, it gave Israel land. Land that belonged to Palestine (regardless of the ethnicity of people leaving there, whether Jewish or Muslim or Christian).

Furthermore, we were victorious in the 1973 war, and retook Sinai. The treaty merely solidified that.

Also, I didn't say the situation in Palestine isn't less than Syria. What I said is that the killings in Syria don't make the killings in Palestine any less significant. Reread my statement.

To conclude my argument: if you only wanted to live in peace, then relocation anywhere was the option. However, what you wanted, relating back to your Zionist sentiments, is a country to govern. I respect that, but not when you take the land of another country that is unwilling to give it. What Britain did was make two states in the land of one. Conflict was bound to rise, and that isn't justification for shoving Palestinians aside and making settlements on their land, while you live on the rest of their land.




Free Palestine, Free Palestine.

We had no choice but to create a separate state for both people to segregate us from the vicious attacks. Arabs riots and pogroms against Jews were mercilessly, they slaughtered Jews infants, women and old people all over Palestine and refused to coexist, whilst the Jews didn't mind to coexist at the beginning. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre
Here is example of one of many horrible actions done by Arabs to Jews in Palestine.


In one of your posts you also said the Jews that live in the west bank should be deported back to Israel, why should they? Is it because you support Jews Free Palestine? You being hypocritical. Expected from someone who have almost no understanding of what really goes on.

A Palestinian leader said he want Judanfrei Palestine. http://reclaimourrepublic.wordpress.com/2013/08/01/abbas-palestinian-state-will-be-judenrein/

Why is that OK when they say that?


They refused to coexist along Jewish state.
They rejected the resolution.
Arabs declared war.
They lost.

We are not at fault.

Egypt lost in 1973 war. Egypt barely stood a chance, they surprised attacked us on our most holiest day, when the army released most of the soldiers back home.
Israel actually knew about the precedence of a coming war but we were told by USA not to do any preemptive attack to defend it self. Nonetheless Israel won the war. USSR even threatened to attack Israel if we don't stop at the end, when Egypt beg for cease fire. Israel captured an entire army divisions in Sinai, something that amount to 300,000-200,000 soldiers, and was 100km away from Cairo,  as well captured more lands from Syria. I don't understand how you can say you won a war that you clearly have lost.

Though Egypt gained political points after the war but nothing more than that. It just lost more of the respect it had. Let's not forget the 6 days war that happened just 6 years before, when Israel humiliated Egypt in just 3 days of combat. While facing multiple of other countries.

I'm not claiming the civil war in Syria is because of multiple ethnicities, but the mistreatment of each ethnicity by the ruling ethnicity, drive them to keep on fighting to create a state for themselves by continuing to fight, or at least insure they will be safe after. Same things happened in the Ballkan.

It's way less. Those Palestinians that died in the last 2 years for example died for being terrorists that aimed to kill civilians. You don't make any sense.
We would have lived in peace if you stopped with this mentality to get rid of Israel and Jewish people. In Burma the Buddhists kill thousands of Muslims, yet I don't see any news coverage on that. You don't seem to value their life as much as you value the Palestinian. All is interests. Your country and people feed you with propaganda and lies to believe in something that is entirely false.

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 04:53

I'm sorry for what happened to your family, but it isn't like that everywhere, and that isn't Islam. That is brutality by people misinterpreting religion or not interpreting it at all. I get the wanting to establish your own state, but that still doesn't justify what happened to Palestine and Palestinians, as nothing justifies the actions perpetrated against your family.

In the end of the day, what happened has happened, and we should now look for solutions rather than pointing fingers. Palestinians need to live as much as Israelis do, and considering so, emptying the settlements on their shrunken land or getting them UN recognition isn't too much to ask for.

i did'nt share that story to seek compasion, i was trying to make you understand that even though islam has bright sides of philosophy and morals, due test of time it failed, everywhere, every region where jews lived under muslim hands has its own stories, even though it's not everyone and everytime it's certainly everywhere, and if we talked generally, the muslim institues failed or did'nt even try to protect them.

what happened to palestine and to the palestinians is part of the debate we are having in other comments, and i expect to continue it

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 04:53

Palestinians need to live as much as Israelis do, and considering so, emptying the settlements on their shrunken land or getting them UN recognition isn't too much to ask for.

sorry for ignoring that line, just noticed

they can do it, they had plenty of chances to, but considering that the PLO refused to almost every offer and instead they insist to reward terrorist families and professing it, i can say confidently they fail themselves.

I'll continue this later, as now I have other matters to tend to, but know that we're different sides of the same coin. A coin that is unfortunately mixed up in constant conflict, and everyone deserves their rights. Not just Palestinians, and not just Israelis. Everyone.

Написао The Tactician, 27.12.2016 at 05:19

and everyone deserves their rights. Not just Palestinians, and not just Israelis. Everyone.

^ we do not deny it

Написао Rock Lee, 27.12.2016 at 04:11

Написао Helly, 27.12.2016 at 03:20

and yet what there government is doing to Palestine is also unquestionably barbaric and unethical.

well, i adore that you try to understand the situation entirely, but you want to talk about it? i really don't think us as barbaric or enethical, lot of times things are'nt as they seem

Remember how I said to separate people from government.

Написао Helly, 27.12.2016 at 05:55

Написао Rock Lee, 27.12.2016 at 04:11

Написао Helly, 27.12.2016 at 03:20

and yet what there government is doing to Palestine is also unquestionably barbaric and unethical.

well, i adore that you try to understand the situation entirely, but you want to talk about it? i really don't think us as barbaric or enethical, lot of times things are'nt as they seem

Remember how I said to separate people from government.

nah, we spammed this thread with too many topics to debate about at the same time, i will leave it for another day

So boring....

Palestine will be freed onces Hdrakon is freed.
Basically never.

Lol at how many people are uninformed about Israeli status in the Middle East.

Israel is 20,000km/2 and have only 6 million people, and Arab countries around them still cry 'occupation' and invade them although they have millions of square kilometers of land and hundreds of millions people.

Israeli settlement in Canaan 3000 years ago can be considered illegal by human laws, but it was God's will and Canaanites were destroying themselves anyway with their satanite sodomite lifestyle. Israel returning in 1948 was legal because there was no state there before, Turkish Empire collapsed and region was English colony(like the rest 3/4 of the world occupied by ginger soul-less freckles).

The Satanite-led World is slowly uniting against Israel, last time they failed when they created Nazi Germany and Nazi Croatia to exterminate Jews, because 2/3 of Jews were in America and USSR who beat the Nazis. Now when Jews are secured in Israel, their own country, satanites find it hard to destroy them, so they are using propaganda, mass media, false history and all nations to spread anti-semitism, lies and instill hate in people so they can use them in war against Israel soon.

Israel will put up a fight, but maybe lose, which is not to worry as nation protected by God cannot lose against satanite led humans. How can a law abbiding human be defeated by pedophile vatican led pagan who pray to gold statues and bow to money, monetary currency. That's just silly. Satanites teach that dead is final, while we know 'death' is only a sleep before God's arrival. After the war, Jews get ressurected and dead pagans don't, lol who win then.

Armaggedon is near.


p.s.
call me a zionist again JimKim, it will be an honor