Thank you Amok & Ivan (And Sun Tzu)

Написао Tiger29, 09.04.2025 at 20:39

The more I watch this play out the more I realize the whole problem is everyone cares about this game, but is too mad at each other to reach a peaceful solution. I wish everyone could agree so change could happen. The game is dying, and we are all here arguing instead of seeking peace. We are holding old grudges against people from 4 years ago Guys let's forgive each other and move on and enjoy this game.

Написао YourSphinx, 08.04.2025 at 09:31

Написао El Serbio, 08.04.2025 at 07:24

As for xBugs—we played years ago when he was around rank 7. I'm not his biggest fan because his ego might actually be bigger than yours, but I can't deny he's smart and could do a lot to help the game. Did he cheat? Yes. Would he do it again if unbanned? I honestly don't think so. I don't even know if we'd end up playing again, but you get the point.

You lost all credibility when you said bugs should be unbanned. That unhinged freak has been perma banned for many years before Dave and should be forever.

"The enemy of my enemy is not my friend"

Any idea/movement bugs attaches himself to is wildly unserious. It's time you understand that.

He is not smart. He cannot create, only destroy.

He can hardly be considered an atwar player, he cheated as a rank 2 in 2017 and has been perma banned since, with short stints of playing under an alt. He is not a part of this community, drop it.

Написао El Serbio, 10.04.2025 at 08:45

...

Написао Dave, 08.04.2025 at 18:11

Написао Weisser Wolf, 07.04.2025 at 22:39

Dave,

I think it goes without saying at this point—everyone has already shared their thoughts on the current state of the game: the players you've refused to unban, the slow pace of improvements, and the steady decline in activity. However, I'd like to comment on one particular aspect.

A true leader knows when to acknowledge a mistake. And if you're looking for examples, some of the most respected CEOs—like those of Microsoft or Apple—have publicly admitted when they've made the wrong call. That's not weakness, that's humility. I say this with the utmost respect: I hope you take a moment to genuinely reflect.

Even users often labeled as toxic or disruptive—like Kaska—have recognized that the mass banning of players has gone too far. And honestly, if someone like me, who used to be known for toxic behavior in duels and clan wars, can admit it was time to grow up and stop playing the victim, I believe change is possible. I had to take a "forced vacation" myself, and I now recognize how counterproductive that attitude was.

As Kaska suggested, why not simply unban those users but mute them from everything except private messages? What real harm could they do? If you give them a second chance, many of them might return—and with them, activity could increase again. We could even experiment with fresh concepts: maybe an "ancient season," or a rotation of never-before-seen maps. As we all know, atWar has near-infinite creative potential.

And if time or resources are the problem, subcontracting is always an option. Outsourcing some work to experienced developers—say, from Mexico or India—could go a long way. Believe me, as a business and process consultant, I say this from experience.

As many have said, an event where you make Waffel super admin or I don't know, something innovative while simply AIing the game or fixing bugs in the maps. And on the topic of Lion nuking the discord, please Dave, it's not like it was the end of the world. I bet Croat or someone else who had the power to do that over a little tantrum could have done it.

It's time to move into the future, even games that were abandonware are reviving thanks to the community, you need a real community manager for the game and maybe, dedicate yourself to the technical, marketing and business issues of the game and believe me many people in the community would be happy to help as it was in that era when Alois and not a certain bug abuser was the head supporter.

I know I'm repeating things others have already pointed out, but I still felt it was worth adding my two cents to the conversation.

I agree that a good leader admits when he is wrong and I like to believe I have that ability too. I've already stated in this thread that I made a mistake wasting too much time talking with the community instead of just focusing on what I knew needed to be done. But as regards removing the people who needed to be removed, I remain convinced it was the right decision.

I hear so many people say "give them a second chance", "maybe they've changed", or sentiments to this effect. Do you not realize, we already did that? Many of the troublemakers who ultimately got banned or deleted in 2021 were people who had ALREADY been through rounds of bans, appeals, and second chances. People must have short memory spans, but I still remember. So if you wonder why I'm unwilling to unban again, it's because we already tried that and it didn't work. I have no interest in going down that road again.

I am also surprised that for as much as people talk about the "good ol' days of atWar", the community, the friendships.... all these things people look back fondly at.... and yet they seem to have no problem with Lion having destroyed a big part of that history forever. It's paradoxical to me that anyone would miss the past and yet defend Lion destroying that same past.

Написао Dave, 09.04.2025 at 14:58

Написао Waffelo, 09.04.2025 at 19:48

Написао Sascha, 10.04.2025 at 10:17

Написао El Serbio, 10.04.2025 at 08:45

...

Just a few months ago, he made a video about an exploit and shared them with pretty much everyone. The video is now private, but honestly, if he had good intentions, he could've just told us directly.
As much as I would support the unban or 2nd chances for most people, he would be one of those where I'm not sure if it would be the right thing to do.
For everyone else, it would make me happy seeing some more old faces around, but it's not my call at the end of the day.

At last, I don't think I have to repeat what so many have already said, but Tiger29's and Domo's posts represent what I'm thinking more or less.

Написао Phoenix, 10.04.2025 at 12:13

Neither of you are going to like what I have to say here but you both need to hear it.

In my view there is a spectrum of people that have been banned, some I think are redeemable but need to reconcile with Dave first and others who just shouldn't be here because they went too far.

Waffel, while you have some valid points and I can sympathise with your experience of being banned, you need to see that the way you're defending yourself also reads as further attacks on Dave. You guys clearly don't like each other, but the way you're going about picking apart what Dave did or didnt do and the way he sees the world isn't doing you or him or the community any favours, its self masturbatory, its unnecessary, - its an itch you keep scratching and the rash is only getting worse. I know you can type for hours on end, you should be a fucking lawyer if you're not one btw because you clearly have an accute sense of injustice... But here and now, its not helping anyone. Have you tried to see things from his perspective?

and Dave, this is your game, its your call what you do, but there is a case to be made for putting some of these guys on parole. I don't like Waffel either, he's irritating as fuck and he knows it, but he is a prime example of someone that should be placed on a prolonged mute as opposed to a perma ban, why? Because he's on the side of the game, he wants it to do well and continue, he just has a cracked way of showing it. If he didnt he wouldnt be bombarding you with these messages in the forums.

In my opinion, if I was in Daves shoes I probably would have banned Waffel too because he can't help himself, he's like a dog with a bone.. if he feels crossed, he won't let go. But after a while I would also probably get over it and be willling to bring him back with some kind of prolonged mute in effect and I wouldnt unmute him until I received an apology, because ultimately I see some of myself in him and I know it would take a lot for me to apologise too. I think the same can be said of others that were banned, but thats not for me to decide.

I'm not going to add any more to this post, all this ban drama is tiring and think we all need to move on. I meant what I said about Dave keeping the lights on, we should all show a little gratitude. I welcome others to do the same.

Написао Palmitas, 10.04.2025 at 17:28

Dave as a genuine question: IK you are not wanting to unban everyone, but, would you consider unbanning some people if they apologized to you correctly?

Написао winkcat, 10.04.2025 at 19:11

just keep hackers and people who are crazy toxic banned... so simple...

Написао cheetah12, 10.04.2025 at 19:20

I think bringing players back and mending the anger toward each other would help the game a lot, but sides need to be more open minded for y'all to reach and agreement. I agree"hi are you there or are you gonna ignore me?" is not a great way to start a conversation but you didn't have to block him. This game is dead and needs some kind of reviving, for example there was six in the room tonight

Написао Dave, 10.04.2025 at 21:27

Написао cheetah12, 10.04.2025 at 19:20

I think bringing players back and mending the anger toward each other would help the game a lot, but sides need to be more open minded for y'all to reach and agreement. I agree"hi are you there or are you gonna ignore me?" is not a great way to start a conversation but you didn't have to block him. This game is dead and needs some kind of reviving, for example there was six in the room tonight

Noble sentiment, but please keep in mind I'm not the one trying to reach an agreement here. I am content with things as they are. I have no interest in bringing anyone back. If I were to do so, it would only be out of kindness to the people asking me. If somebody wants me to unban somebody, they should approach it from that perspective. Because I am quite happy with having less headaches to deal with, and I am totally fine with it if we never reach any agreement.

Написао Waffelo, 10.04.2025 at 22:00

Hi Dave, how are you?

I am actually shocked of the things that I'm reading right now. I reached out to you on Discord after reading one of your posts and was interested in talking things out with you, because I remember in the past that we used to talk a lot, about a lot of different matters, especially concerning the bans/deletions of certain players in the past (because I've always been against permbanning & deleting players, no matter the shit they've done, because this community is small and fragile and things like that only cause more damage in my opinion. Any person that knows me or just searches for any of my posts, knows that's true).

You've always claimed to value my opinion and advice highly, especially on matters you didn't know how to handle, and I was always willing to help you with certain things. All of that however started to change when I became vocal about certain things that in my opinion started to destroy the very essence of this game and it's community. So perhaps you could understand that it came as a shock to me, and many of the other banned/deleted players, when you deleted/banned all of our accounts AFTER you've literally allowed all of us to openly discuss the matters on the forums back in november 2021. And I'm actually deeply dissapointed that now, 4 years laters, you're kind of doing the exact same thing as you did back in november 2021 and with that creating a precedent that apparently caring about the game and posting, discussing and sharing your opinions about problematic things within this game is a bannable offence as of now.

You've claimed multiple times in this thread that you don't remember banning me, eventhough I've explained and described all of the things that happened at the time very thoroughly and detailed in many of my posts already (posts that you claimed were TLDR), and now you're even willing to go as far as claiming that it was Sid that permbanned me, and that you're thinking about ''respecting the policy'', which you and I both know, with all due respect, isn't truthful at all. Sid banned me for 30 days for calling him incompetent in march 2021 (never permanently) and YOU deleted my account (and all of the others as well) in november 2021 for creating that thread. This is exactly what it says so in my history, and I've seen the screenshots of it like that back in 2021 myself. For the sake of transparency, I would politely and respectfully ask you to please share a screenshot of the mentioned two events on my history, because I know for a fact that it says Sid banned me for 30 days in march 2021, and you deleted my account in november 2021.

So Dave, in all honesty, I really don't know why you're portraying things so differently right now? Given all of the things that has happened over the years, and the way you're talking about me and responding to this thread right now, the only reason I could think of is for you to try and get rid of me once and for all and erasing my whole existence on this game for simply giving you a hard time in this thread and telling you certain things most of the people on this game are afraid to tell you (they don't want to risk get banned/muted/deletd) and things you probably don't like to hear, eventhough that has been the very essence of our ''relationship'' from the very start. You've always said that you'd rather hear the raw truth instead of things being sugarcoated.

Написао Waffelo, 10.04.2025 at 22:01

About the discord matter. After reading your post yesterday, I decided it would be better to talk things over instead of endlessly posting back and forth on the forums and getting ignored by you for most parts anyway, so I logged on (because I noticed you were online), but I couldn't reach you in time to talk things out in game. So I tried to PM you, but apparently you turned off that possibility as well because apparently only people on your friendlist are able to send you messages now, which only left me one option: to contact you on Discord. I reached out to you on discord because (like said in my previous posts), that's where our last conversation happened. I noticed you were online, so I first send you a message ''You there?''. After 5 minutes I noticed you still hadn't responded, so I followed up with ''or you just gonna ignore me now''? (https://prnt.sc/jJgRaxNp73Eu, timestamps to prove it).

Написао Dave, 10.04.2025 at 17:49

Написао Sascha, 10.04.2025 at 10:17

Написао El Serbio, 10.04.2025 at 08:45

...

Just a few months ago, he made a video about an exploit and shared them with pretty much everyone. The video is now private, but honestly, if he had good intentions, he could've just told us directly.
As much as I would support the unban or 2nd chances for most people, he would be one of those where I'm not sure if it would be the right thing to do.
For everyone else, it would make me happy seeing some more old faces around, but it's not my call at the end of the day.

At last, I don't think I have to repeat what so many have already said, but Tiger29's and Domo's posts represent what I'm thinking more or less.

Bugs is a genuine psychopath. The last time I even mentioned his name (like 2 days ago) he showed up within an hour, made several posts on a new alt, and then as soon as I deleted and banned those we started getting ddos'd. It has been the same pattern with him for as long as I've been here, so what 6 years and counting? I hate to even mention his name now because it like summons him and he'll do the same shit again very soon. He's a guy who will never be allowed back, ever, under any circumstances.

Написао Metyu, 11.04.2025 at 03:28

Tldr anyone?