Northern Macedonia

Написао Mauzer Panteri, 18.06.2018 at 15:01

Todays Macedonia doesnt have anything canon with old Macedonia.

So they should change name to Mauzeria Panterlandia.

Mauzer forced me to support his comment..

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 08:44

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Colonization_Archaic_Period.png That will explain to you why greeks came from anatolian

That is Colonization, It serves little in indicating origins, Could you not be so ignorant in your own country's history?

Написао Waffel, 18.06.2018 at 15:05

Mauzer forced me to support his comment..

Yhen support it.

Написао K_Himmelreich, 18.06.2018 at 15:12

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 08:44

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Colonization_Archaic_Period.png That will explain to you why greeks came from anatolian

That is Colonization, It serves little in indicating origins, Could you not be so ignorant in your own country's history?

It is the spread of Hellinism before Alexanders campaign , and of course that spread include macedonia. I dont speak about where the people comes from , i speak about the culture of that people. And macedonians had greek culture from the acient times. And of course the Greek Colonization has an importand role of this hellenistic spread.

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 15:42

Написао K_Himmelreich, 18.06.2018 at 15:12

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 08:44

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Colonization_Archaic_Period.png That will explain to you why greeks came from anatolian

That is Colonization, It serves little in indicating origins, Could you not be so ignorant in your own country's history?

It is the spread of Hellinism before Alexanders campaign , and of course that spread include macedonia. I dont speak about where the people comes from , i speak about the culture of that people. And macedonians had greek culture from the acient times. And of course the Greek Colonization has an importand role of this hellenistic spread.

Ah I see, then I am sorry for the misunderstanding, it just I read "came from anatolia" and it threw me off, please be more concise with your words.

Написао K_Himmelreich, 18.06.2018 at 15:49

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 15:42

Написао K_Himmelreich, 18.06.2018 at 15:12

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 08:44

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Colonization_Archaic_Period.png That will explain to you why greeks came from anatolian

That is Colonization, It serves little in indicating origins, Could you not be so ignorant in your own country's history?

It is the spread of Hellinism before Alexanders campaign , and of course that spread include macedonia. I dont speak about where the people comes from , i speak about the culture of that people. And macedonians had greek culture from the acient times. And of course the Greek Colonization has an importand role of this hellenistic spread.

Ah I see, then I am sorry for the misunderstanding, it just I read "came from anatolia" and it threw me off, please be more concise with your words.

Nah I thought he spoke about the people of exchange , ( Greeks from Pontus , Greeks from Capadocia , Greeks from Smyrna ktc. ) And that map prove that they are greeks cuz of that spread .

Написао The_Empirezz, 18.06.2018 at 09:51

Fact of the matter is, most of europe is a mix of different peoples, modern day macedonians (Slavs) immigrated into the area and assimilated the people living there which include the ancient Greek Macedonians. So both are in fact descendants of Alexander the Great dna wise, as a part of that population still remained in modern Greek borders too. I hope Greece and Macedonia can stop their quarrels and both live peacefully and prosper, for the arguments over who has more claim to Alexander the Great is just ridiculous.

But I fear such is most balkan arguments in general so

Написао Black Swans, 18.06.2018 at 16:04

Yeah both nations have Macedonian ancestry as evident in this picture too. Greek one is lower than the Macedonian partly due to most Greeks not being from the area of the ancient kingdom of Macedon, like Greeks from the south. but basicly everyone around that area has the ancestry and you can see it is a massive mix of people up there.

Написао The_Empirezz, 18.06.2018 at 16:13

Написао Black Swans, 18.06.2018 at 16:04

Yeah both nations have Macedonian ancestry as evident in this picture too. Greek one is lower than the Macedonian partly due to most Greeks not being from the area of the ancient kingdom of Macedon, like Greeks from the south. but basicly everyone around that area has the ancestry and you can see it is a massive mix of people up there.

edit: retarded construction.

I would disagree, I think it would be something like it is Macedonian percentage. In part of Greek Macedonia (needs to be tested).

Btw. I was dumbfounded with this research.

Написао Mauzer Panteri, 18.06.2018 at 15:01

Todays Macedonia doesnt have anything canon with old Macedonia.

So they should change name to Mauzeria Panterlandia.

Blind man

DNA is irrelevant to a person's national identity, culture and history are. And let's look at history for a second.

First of all, the ancient Macedonians:
-We have little written sources of the ancient Macedonian languages, however, all of the ancient Macedonian names we know were Greek names.
-Herodotus, the first Greek historian ever, considered Macedonians to be Greeks. However, Herodotus is not a very reliable source as he was very prone to just adding his own speculations into everything
-The Macedonians themselves considered themselves Greek, and Phillip II (father of Alexander the Great) marched into southern Greece with the goal of "uniting the Greek people"
-Opinion on the Macedonians in southern Greece was mixed: Athens and their sphere of influence overall considered them non-Greek, however, at the time, being "Greek" was considered a privilege and sign of cultural superiority, and the kingdom of Macedonia was not that advanced, so many looked down on them. Sparta and the Doric sphere overall considered them fellow Greeks. A great indicator towards the acceptance of both the Macedonians and the southern Greeks over the fact that Macedonians too were a Greek people was the fact that they were permitted to compete in the Olympic Games, an event where only Greeks could compete.
-The ancient Macedonian kingdom's traditional borders only included a few small border areas of the modern Yugoslav republic. During Phillip II's reign, Macedonia grew greatly, encompassing the entirety of the modern Republic, but also many more regions, like almost all of modern Bulgaria, Thessaly in Greece and modern European Turkey.

Now let's move on to Alexander the Great and his successors:
-Alexander the Great claimed that he was the leader of the Greeks, this is shown by many of his actions, a notable example being the inscription on Achilles' tomb after the battle of river Granicus, which said that "all of the Greeks except the Lacaedemonians" had scored a great victory.
-During Alexander the Great's reign, as well as his successors, the "koine" (Greek for "common") Greek language was formed: Before then, there were many different Greek dialects, most notably the Ionic, Doric and Aeolic dialects, as well as the Macedonian dialect that we're discussing. From this point onward, the people inhabiting Macedonia were Greek, no disputes.
-The Macedonian Antigonid kingdom of the Hellenistic era encompassed all of the modern Greek region of Macedonia, as well as approximately half of the territory of the former Yugoslav republic. The same goes for the Roman province of Macedonia.

Moving on to the Byzantine era:
-In the early Byzantine era, the Slavic peoples invaded the Balkans, reaching very south, all the way to the Peloponnese at their greatest extent, and leaving a stigma, great or small, in all areas they took, including the territory of the modern republic. Later, the Bulgars invaded the Balkans as well, but they were integrated by the local Slavic people, creating the slavic Bulgarian people. At this time, the Slavs living in the modern republic were counted together with these "Bulgarians".
-The Byzantines' administrative and military subdivisions of the empire were the "themes" , and there was also the "theme of the Macedonians": However, this theme was centered on Andrianople, and it was called such because it was initially founded by the Byzantine armed unit originating from Macedonia. Flamewars hadn't been invented at the time, so the Byzantines couldn't bother to say whether these people were Greeks, Slavs or anything else.

Moving on, the Ottoman era. This one is a little more controversial...
-During the Ottoman era, there was a lot of internal migration in the empire, which messed up the demographics of the region badly. Furthermore, due to the discrimination against non-Muslims, many people converted to Islam and sometimes also integrated into Turkish culture to be treated better. This is when the chaos of the modern Balkans was created. In Macedonia's case, the Ottomans couldn't care less about who lived where and who was what in the region, so they just took a paintbrush and drew a big region that they thought looked fancy, calling it "Macedonia". We do not know exactly what happened or when it happened, but by the 19th century there were Greeks, Turks, Bulgarians, Albanians and many others in this "Macedonia", all occupying different areas, most areas being mixed, some with Greek majority, some with Bulgarian etc. Overall, Greeks controlled Chalkidike (the weird fork thing in the coast) and the southwestern areas, Albanians controlled the northwest, Bulgarians controlled the bulk of the northern and eastern countryside while Turks controlled the largest urban settlements (Thessaloniki was majority Turkish at the time). Then the late 19th century kicked in, which was a time when racism, forceful expulsion, genocide and the like were considered perfectly ok. This resulted in massive, often armed, conflict over the region, because everyone wanted a piece of the cake as the Ottoman empire was collapsing. The Macedonian struggle happened, which more or less resulted in nothing, the Illiden uprising happened, which more or less resulted in nothing as well, and many other events and rebellions happened again and again, all of them resulting in more or less nothing. Then the Balkan Wars happened, and "Macedonia" following the Ottoman definition was split into the Serb-controlled zone and the Greek-controlled zone. The Bulgarians that had still remained in both areas, however, were a problem for both states: The Greeks tried to integrate them into Greek society, saying that they were simply Greeks that spoke a Slavic language but had no other differences, similar to the Arvanites in southern Greece. The Serbs, on the other hand, claimed that the Bulgarians in "Macedonia" were not actually Bulgarians, but a seperate Slavic people, and the later Yugoslav kingdom continued this policy. Bulgaria tried to reclaim the area in both WW1 and WW2, being defeated each time. The policies of both states more or less succeeded, and the Slavs of the area either became Greeks or started calling themselves "Macedonians". However, at this time, this "Macedonian" people was not tied to Alexander the Great's people in any way. In Greece's case, many also fled into Bulgaria proper or into the Serbian area. Also, after the Greco-Turkish War of 1920,the Turks of the area were also removed from the picture, due to the population exchange that took place.

Moving on to post-Ottoman era:
-After WW2, Yugoslavia was controlled by the communist dictator Tito. Tito was intent on creating a Balkan communist bloc completely seperate from the Soviet one. In this plan, he intended to unite the Balkan states of Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Albania and Greece into one federation. This federation would be split into five subdivisions: Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Albania, Greece and Macedonia. The first four should be self-explainatory. The last one was supposed to be a multicultural state composed of Greeks, Slavs and any other people living there. This is the first time the name "Macedonia" was used to refer solely to the northern Serb-controlled zone: Tito called the area such as he intended to incorporate it into the federation later on. At this time, Greece was in a civil war, in which Yugoslavia was backing the communists. The communists, however, ultimately lost, and that, coupled with Bulgaria falling under Soviet influence, cast Tito's plans into tatters. The name of the area sticked around, though, since no one bothered to change it. After the civil war, most Slavs in Greek Macedonia had supported the communists, so the allied-backed government discriminated against them. This led to many of them fleeing into the Yugoslav zone. Fast-forward to the collapse of Yugoslavia, Yugoslav "Macedonia" gains independence, and they have no idea what they're supposed to set their national identity as. At this point, they had gradually strained away from their Bulgarian roots culturally, and none of them felt like Bulgarians, nor did they want to be treated as Bulgarians. So their government came up with the whole "Alexander the Great" fiasco. And then the name dispute started.

And that's how we got to today. Draw your own conclusions, and have fun.

Wow that came out bigger than I had it in mind

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 15:42

Написао K_Himmelreich, 18.06.2018 at 15:12

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 08:44

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Colonization_Archaic_Period.png That will explain to you why greeks came from anatolian

That is Colonization, It serves little in indicating origins, Could you not be so ignorant in your own country's history?

It is the spread of Hellinism before Alexanders campaign , and of course that spread include macedonia. I dont speak about where the people comes from , i speak about the culture of that people. And macedonians had greek culture from the acient times. And of course the Greek Colonization has an importand role of this hellenistic spread.

Hellinism and their culture dont exist anymore
Modern greeks are more close to slavic culture than to ancient wake up kid
Whole east europe +balkan are slavic
But greeks are most retarded slavs
Now go eat musaka its slavic recipe

Написао avatar, 18.06.2018 at 18:32

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 15:42

Написао K_Himmelreich, 18.06.2018 at 15:12

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 08:44

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Colonization_Archaic_Period.png That will explain to you why greeks came from anatolian

That is Colonization, It serves little in indicating origins, Could you not be so ignorant in your own country's history?

It is the spread of Hellinism before Alexanders campaign , and of course that spread include macedonia. I dont speak about where the people comes from , i speak about the culture of that people. And macedonians had greek culture from the acient times. And of course the Greek Colonization has an importand role of this hellenistic spread.

Hellinism and their culture dont exist anymore
Modern greeks are more close to slavic culture than to ancient wake up kid
Whole east europe +balkan are slavic
But greeks are most retarded slavs
Now go eat musaka its slavic recipe

Hellinism culture will never die if we still exist. We have nothing to do with the Slavs. Nothing common with these barbaric invaders. Instead , you speak a slavic languege. Greece is the only country in the Balkans who keep speeking the same languege from the acient times. The only difference between the modern greek and the acient greek is the religion and nothing more.

Написао Cyan Spectre, 19.06.2018 at 01:58

Написао avatar, 18.06.2018 at 18:32

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 15:42

Написао K_Himmelreich, 18.06.2018 at 15:12

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 08:44

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Colonization_Archaic_Period.png That will explain to you why greeks came from anatolian

That is Colonization, It serves little in indicating origins, Could you not be so ignorant in your own country's history?

It is the spread of Hellinism before Alexanders campaign , and of course that spread include macedonia. I dont speak about where the people comes from , i speak about the culture of that people. And macedonians had greek culture from the acient times. And of course the Greek Colonization has an importand role of this hellenistic spread.

Hellinism and their culture dont exist anymore
Modern greeks are more close to slavic culture than to ancient wake up kid
Whole east europe +balkan are slavic
But greeks are most retarded slavs
Now go eat musaka its slavic recipe

Hellinism culture will never die if we still exist. We have nothing to do with the Slavs. Nothing common with these barbaric invaders. Instead , you speak a slavic languege. Greece is the only country in the Balkans who keep speeking the same languege from the acient times. The only difference between the modern greek and the acient greek is the religion and nothing more.

Language,ideology,structure,lifestyle,clothing,art,music ,dance,education ......................

You cant read ancient greek language
gypsy boy

Написао Zephyrusu, 18.06.2018 at 18:28

Wow that came out bigger than I had it in mind

that crap

Написао Zephyrusu, 18.06.2018 at 18:28

Wow that came out bigger than I had it in mind

that's what she said

Написао avatar, 19.06.2018 at 04:50

Написао Cyan Spectre, 19.06.2018 at 01:58

Написао avatar, 18.06.2018 at 18:32

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 15:42

Написао K_Himmelreich, 18.06.2018 at 15:12

Написао Cyan Spectre, 18.06.2018 at 08:44

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Colonization_Archaic_Period.png That will explain to you why greeks came from anatolian

That is Colonization, It serves little in indicating origins, Could you not be so ignorant in your own country's history?

It is the spread of Hellinism before Alexanders campaign , and of course that spread include macedonia. I dont speak about where the people comes from , i speak about the culture of that people. And macedonians had greek culture from the acient times. And of course the Greek Colonization has an importand role of this hellenistic spread.

Hellinism and their culture dont exist anymore
Modern greeks are more close to slavic culture than to ancient wake up kid
Whole east europe +balkan are slavic
But greeks are most retarded slavs
Now go eat musaka its slavic recipe

Hellinism culture will never die if we still exist. We have nothing to do with the Slavs. Nothing common with these barbaric invaders. Instead , you speak a slavic languege. Greece is the only country in the Balkans who keep speeking the same languege from the acient times. The only difference between the modern greek and the acient greek is the religion and nothing more.

Language,ideology,structure,lifestyle,clothing,art,music ,dance,education ......................

You cant read ancient greek language
gypsy boy

Of course i can read acient greek....
Can you ready acient macedonian? Was it a slavic languege?

Цитирај:

Написао avatar, 19.06.2018 at 04:50

Language,ideology,structure,lifestyle,clothing,art,music ,dance,education ......................

You cant read ancient greek language
gypsy boy

Language: A Greek language with its origins in ancient Greek that has developed over time into what it is today.
Ideology: Wtf is a "slavic" ideology anyway? Ideologies have nothing to do with ethnicity.
Structure: Are you referring to architecture, or the structure of society? Either way both are not slavic in any way.
Clothing: All of the western world wears the same clothing nowadays, also adidas tracksuits are a rarity here.
Music: I do not recall Slavs playing any bouzouki...
Dance: Again, most traditional dances are unrelated to Slavs.
Education: Again, what is "Slavic" education?

As for the ancient Greek language, I can read a good part of it, not perfectly as the language has evolved overtime just like any language, but it's much easier for me to read ancient Greek than for a modern English person to read Shakespeare's English.

Trying to prove Greeks are Slavs is nonsensical and pointless. Any similarities between the two would actually be the result of Slavs embracing Byzantine Greek culture when they invaded the Balkans during the early Middle Ages.

At this point I am 60% convinced you're just trolling...

Цитирај:

Написао Zephyrusu, 19.06.2018 at 06:22

Написао avatar, 19.06.2018 at 04:50

Language,ideology,structure,lifestyle,clothing,art,music ,dance,education ......................

You cant read ancient greek language
gypsy boy

Language: A Greek language with its origins in ancient Greek that has developed over time into what it is today.
Ideology: Wtf is a "slavic" ideology anyway? Ideologies have nothing to do with ethnicity.
Structure: Are you referring to architecture, or the structure of society? Either way both are not slavic in any way.
Clothing: All of the western world wears the same clothing nowadays, also adidas tracksuits are a rarity here.
Music: I do not recall Slavs playing any bouzouki...
Dance: Again, most traditional dances are unrelated to Slavs.
Education: Again, what is "Slavic" education?

As for the ancient Greek language, I can read a good part of it, not perfectly as the language has evolved overtime just like any language, but it's much easier for me to read ancient Greek than for a modern English person to read Shakespeare's English.

Trying to prove Greeks are Slavs is nonsensical and pointless. Any similarities between the two would actually be the result of Slavs embracing Byzantine Greek culture when they invaded the Balkans during the early Middle Ages.

At this point I am 60% convinced you're just trolling...

Of course he is trolling , even his country its a troll country .

Modern Greek can usually get the gist of an ancient text, although trying to translate may often lead to tragic misinterpretations

gg

Nobody cares

Modern greeks =turk+slavic

Написао avatar, 19.06.2018 at 06:46

Modern greeks =turk+slavic

nice facts

Its like maths ... 2+1=3

Modern South Slavs = Albanians+Turks+Avars+Bulgarians+Slavs+Greeks

With your way

Написао avatar, 19.06.2018 at 06:46

Modern greeks =turk+slavic

k this has degenerated into pure trolling so I'll just stop caring

Republic of North Macedonia
Vukojebina- the place where the wolves fuck

this is Balkanistan

Glad i dont care to read this