Moderators!

I want to state that before you guys keep reading, that I want no flamingwar nor attacking towards moderators/admins, or even towards players in this thread. I will insure you that this post won't have attacking in it. If you feel like I am attacking you or offending you by anything, let me know by PM and I will change it. Because sometimes things I say could be taken wrong by others and thats not what we want.

This thread will be a kind of summary of most of the threads about the moderators. 90% of them were probably locked or deleted, unfortunately these threads and comments have gone to a place that noone knows.

There is a thread going around the forums right now about moderators. This thread is recently locked and I feel like there should be a place for the community [u]AND[/u] moderators to give their opinions about this.

Now a big part of the community thinks specific moderators shouldn't be moderator at all because they are ''bias'' as they call it. Or they dont bring anything usefull to this community or they are inactive etc.

I think it would be usefull to have a thread on forums about the rules moderators should stick on. I heard from several moderators there is already a thread about this, but it is in moderator forum. Which means the community cant check it. This would solve alot of problems because I think a big part of the community feels like alot of moderators actions werent fully right. To have an open forum like I mentioned it could solve this problem and actually could avoid having heavy discussions and most likely more threads bashing the moderators in general discussion. ( I know this is weird coming from me, because most of these threads came from me ). The thing is I think alot of people feel mistreated by moderators, this could cause them getting irritated about it and some of them accept it and some of them won't let it by this. Afterall we should accept not all 7 billion people on the earth are quite the same. And I dont think people should get punished for their personality.

Now we come to the part how people become mods.
What has caught my attention is that most of the moderators ( I know off) are the quiet type of persons.
Here I quote Desu:
''There has to be a player that stands above in maturity, integrity, and professionalism. Pick those up and you'll get yourself moderator. Want it? Don't ask for it, demonstrate it.''

I am not saying this is a bad thing at all. But I wonder how much of the moderators we have actually has this?
And most of all, most of the moderators we have aren't active anymore as they used to be.
Here are some pictures I collected at the time Syndicate was fully active with much moderators in it.


2 of the moderators in these screenshots actually arent moderators anymore as you all know it. Because both of them went through personal stuff in reallife and quit being a moderator.
I have noticed that most of the moderators nowdays arent as fully active as they used to be, and I think this was also the reason to make ~Bertank and ~Devil moderators. My opinion is that I think it wasn't this usefull to make both of them moderator though. Because no hard feeling, i like both of these persons as player, but both of them aren't that active anymore as most of us actually expect from the moderators. Devil recently actually plays clanwars and I noticed that he became more active though. So basically it was a little bit more about Bertank. I also would like to mention ~sificvoid because I actually never seen him online? I dont know if anyone of you guys have seen him online.
I noticed that the recently boost/nerfs were also partly made by a moderator. This moderator is not quietly active and I am not sure if he knows all of the mechanics of AW 100%. (this could sound a little bit rude but I didn't completely know how to translate it into something nicer ) Of course this moderator is free in suggesting nerfs/boosts like most of the community players do in daily threads. But I wonder if this nerf/boost was accepted because he is a moderator or just because he knows what he is talking about? (again no offense)

I could tell about all the bad and good stuff of each moderator, but I dont think this would help this thread at all. So I would like to see you guys (the community, moderators included) to actually talk about this openly and free. And I also think if someones doubts about a moderators action, he should be able to make a thread about it, why? because I think it could show that maybe people who did the same thing got a less big punishment or much worse punishment. Those threads should not turn out into attacking or flamewars. But instead of moderators locking it they should respect people and their threads. For example, this thread. I am almost sure one of the moderators will probably lock or delete this one even though I wasted alot of effort in it.

As for the rest of this thread once again, dont start a flamewar or attack eachother. Feel free to give your opinion about this subject in general. If I forgot to mention anything which I think I did but cannot think of it at this moment please tell me.


Waffel

Ok

Actually, moderators have all rights to lock threads that are about them: I've read through some of them, and they're mostly littered with logical fallacies or ad hominem that significantly reduce the productivity of any good discussion. Mind you, most of atwar discussions are like this and stem from the fact that atwars community can barely hold up its engrish standards. Consequently, moderators would be inclined to delete or lock said threads.

In fact, do we really want those who give up their time to help us moderate to feel like they're working in a hostile environment? They have all rights to minimize damage to their reputation, which they professionally need to protect as a name for all mods.

That said, I don't agree with the method of some of the mods. But that is no means to continually scrutinize their actions, slender their words, and mistreat them.

Also, if you delete everything except the part where you talk about the inactivity of mods, that would be the only necessary part waffle

Написао Guest, 29.04.2015 at 08:39

Actually, moderators have all rights to lock threads that are about them: I've read through some of them, and they're mostly littered with logical fallacies or ad hominem that significantly reduce the productivity of any good discussion. Mind you, most of atwar discussions are like this and stem from the fact that atwars community can barely hold up its engrish standards, but moderators' liberties extend to their own reputations.

In fact, do we really want those who give up their time to help us moderate to feel like they're working in a hostile environment? They have all rights to minimize damage to their reputation, which they professionally need to protect as a name for all mods.

That said, I don't agree with the method of some of the mods. But that is no means to continually scrutinize their actions, slender their words, and mistreat them.

Also, if you delete everything except the part where you talk about the inactivity of mods, that would be the only necessary part waffle

You are right, but its pretty hard to see the community in war with the moderators. Like I said at the end, I am almost sure I forgot to mention some things but just didnt come to my mind yet. But thanks for your comment!

It is only fair to players that when a punishment is enforced that a set procedure is followed. This must include a screenshot of the offence taken place and a required field to state the how an offence has been committed and why the punishment has been enforced. Without this there is no rehabilitation process for the offender, which I would hope is the reason a punishment is enforced. One word against the other and moderators opinions which stem from the product of their environment is not conducive to a constant and reliable method of enforcing punishments. Warnings and punishments to players are not something that should be enforced lightly.

As for a forum to hold mods accountable for their actions I do not support, this should be done in private as Wulfhung says, this is important to maintain a moderators integrity.

In terms of moderator inactivity, I agree moderator's should be required to spend a certain amount of time over a month online and active within the game. This is important because moderators are the main line of communication between players and admins regarding key in-game decisions. Not only this, there is an issue with inactivity from some mods with sustained periods of no moderators online. As the community grows in numbers so must the way moderators moderate in respect of this.

Написао Waffel, 29.04.2015 at 08:12

There is a thread going around the forums right now about moderators. This thread is recently locked and I feel like there should be a place for the community [u]AND[/u] moderators to give their opinions about this.

It's going to get locked before the third page. Civil discussion on the internet is rarer a substance than free money.

We do not really need another regulations thread. We already have an AtWar Rules and Guidelines post. In order to reduce disputes claiming unfair measures, it is my belief that moderators should treat the AtWar Rules and Guidelines post as the law, deity and gospel. I should be able to read the AtWar Rules and Guidelines and have a perfect understanding of what will or will not be punished by the moderators. No exceptions should be made, I believe, to the AtWar Rules and Guidelines. If it's allowed, it's allowed. If it isn't, it isn't.

With power, wrote an author, comes responsibility. The AtWar moderators are given great powers in the chat and the forums, so I think they should make every effort to fulfill their responsibility - moderation. It's my opinion that if someone is frequently inactive for extended periods of time, that person cannot fulfill his or her responsibilities as a moderator and therefore shouldn't be given power as a moderator.

I don't think the suggestions coming from moderators have anything to do with whether they're accepted. Correlation does not imply causation. Probably the most influential and respected players become moderators. Probably the most influential and respected players has better chance of making their suggestions stick. One does not really affect the other.

I cannot comment on any moderators in particular. This is a very bad thing. Why? Because the reason I can't comment on any moderator in particular is that in one and a half years of playing, I haven't seen any moderators that often. The 04:00 UTC - 12:00 UTC timezone is a desert. It really needs some moderators. I rarely see any online.

P. S. This thread is going to get locked before the third page. I almost guarantee it.

The issue I'm most concerned is the inactivity of mods. I've only met Devil in a game, no one else... and it makes me really sad because I know they are somehow the parents and guardians of AW. Having a closer relationship and even a friendly one would make my (and probably our) experience much better. I realized this while playing with Devil. We had a little... argument but I hope it's clear by now XD but besides from that I still consider him to be a really nice person! I was "shocked", who would have ever thought mods actually played, actually talked and interacted and even were nice and friendly!?!?! I swear I was totally surprised. Untill that point I hadn't met a single mod in game. I think the community would benefit a lot from mods like this, closer to the players, friendly, funny, etc. By now, I've only talked a bit with Columna, who in my opinion is lovely and approachable, but sadly, I haven't been able to play a single game with him I don't know if the moderating position is so stressful that they somehow distance from the community or if they already were a bit quiet, but for me it's sad to admit that I don't have a little bit of a friendship with any of them... specially considering that I try to mantain nice relationships with everyone I happen to meet. Pls mods, I know you're also people, ordinay people with feelings, don't feel embarassed and give me a hug!

Now, about those supposed "moderating rules", my only doubt is why do they keep it private? I'm not insinuating that they don't follow these rules, I want to think that they do follow these rules and therefor they do not need to hide them from us. Knowing them might also give us a hint about why mods behave in certain ways when they are exposed to certain circumstances and consequently improve our understanding of them as a person.

And for my last question.... tan tan taaaaan.... would you consider there to be players in this community that fulfill what Desu said: "There has to be a player that stands above in maturity, integrity, and professionalism"?? I'm not sure if I would need more than a hand to count them (maybe a bit exagerated but you get the point).

PD: pls don't lock it my beloved mods! Let us hear your beautiful voices before! Show us that International is wrong

Написао RaulPB, 29.04.2015 at 10:14

-snip-

Now who's naive again?

You have too much confidence in the goodness of human beings.

How do you guys even read this long post with these long ass comments

Написао International, 29.04.2015 at 10:37

Now who's naive again?

You have too much confidence in the goodness of human beings.

1. Don't go off-topic
2. Don't ruin the loving enviroment I wanted to bring to this thread, there are already too many bad vibrations around all mod related posts. I want them to feel welcome
3. Don't you dare snip my beautiful comments just like that!
4. Our difference is that I know when to be naive and why I should be naive. Besides, even mods deserve a chance to recieve my love The world had its chance and ruined it.
5. This may be a ridiculous statement but I'd expect mods to be minimally good / nice / understanding. I hope I'm not wrong though...

Написао AlBoZzZ, 29.04.2015 at 10:42

How do you guys even read this long post with these long ass comments

Because our teachers actually taught us to read and write

Написао RaulPB, 29.04.2015 at 10:14

The issue I'm most concerned is the inactivity of mods. I've only met Devil in a game, no one else... and it makes me really sad because I know they are somehow the parents and guardians of AW. Having a closer relationship and even a friendly one would make my (and probably our) experience much better. I realized this while playing with Devil. We had a little... argument but I hope it's clear by now XD but besides from that I still consider him to be a really nice person! I was "shocked", who would have ever thought mods actually played, actually talked and interacted and even were nice and friendly!?!?! I swear I was totally surprised. Untill that point I hadn't met a single mod in game. I think the community would benefit a lot from mods like this, closer to the players, friendly, funny, etc. By now, I've only talked a bit with Columna, who in my opinion is lovely and approachable, but sadly, I haven't been able to play a single game with him I don't know if the moderating position is so stressful that they somehow distance from the community or if they already were a bit quiet, but for me it's sad to admit that I don't have a little bit of a friendship with any of them... specially considering that I try to mantain nice relationships with everyone I happen to meet. Pls mods, I know you're also people, ordinay people with feelings, don't feel embarassed and give me a hug!

Now, about those supposed "moderating rules", my only doubt is why do they keep it private? I'm not insinuating that they don't follow these rules, I want to think that they do follow these rules and therefor they do not need to hide them from us. Knowing them might also give us a hint about why mods behave in certain ways when they are exposed to certain circumstances and consequently improve our understanding of them as a person.

And for my last question.... tan tan taaaaan.... would you consider there to be players in this community that fulfill what Desu said: "There has to be a player that stands above in maturity, integrity, and professionalism"?? I'm not sure if I would need more than a hand to count them (maybe a bit exagerated but you get the point).

PD: pls don't lock it my beloved mods! Let us hear your beautiful voices before! Show us that International is wrong

Thank you! couldn't have said it any better

Написао AlBoZzZ, 29.04.2015 at 10:42

How do you guys even read this long post with these long ass comments

Because we're literate?

Написао RaulPB, 29.04.2015 at 10:45

-snip-

You can't tell me what to do!

MAKE DAMN TANKS !!!!!!

You're adorable *.*

Wow, first time I ever see so many well-constructed arguments. Maybe I should make mine, too.



.... jk, at least not now. But the fact that 6 mods watched this thread and let it open does proves something.

Well yes it's going to be locked soon as I haven't seen a single community listening to their insult so openly(no offense).

Well yes, even I do think that the community has no balance and check over giving punishments. I think that the community should have a rule book in which the punishment is mention just as the laws we have in real life. This would create a balance in the game which would stop future crysis that are going to offense the game.

The second thing the inactive mods should be removed. The admins should keep a check on the activity of the mods and the on the community and they should keep check on the proofs they give for punishing the community. Well the admins themselves are too inactive. They check in for 5 mins and then log off for day. Well that's bad. Either they should get enough staff or control the community themselves actively(no offense just a suggestion). If they have kept the community on mods then they should get enough active mods as the ones those are now are useless. This is not the effective way you guys are controlling the community(trust me I have myself 3 years of experience on controlling a community and again no offense).

The third thing I don't like the mods as they mostly do not response except some mods like meester and acq. Have you guys ever listened "A bad workman quarrels with his tools"? Well then this is the right place where you'll get a perfect example. Truly, the reason for writing this is I want a change in the community. Well not just me everyone wants it!

Thanks waffel for making a thread like this.

Omg to long to read but upvote for waffel
(you are sexy in r8 but mauzer in r12 ****** )

I like turtles

Написао International, 29.04.2015 at 11:00

You can't tell me what to do!

I'm Mystics' Ambassador, of course I can tell you what to do and that's what I already did. You can't do anything to about it. Now, be gone! You're not welcome here anymore! Now, stop going off-topic you naive spoilt brat, I don't want any mod to lock this cause of your fault <3

@The future mod who lock this:

Can you explain us why none of the mods who already saw the thread locked it before you?

Написао Waffel, 29.04.2015 at 10:53

Thank you! couldn't have said it any better

No no, thank you for starting this post! Thanks to you I had a place to write my thoughts and Devil saw my post! I'm happy now

Написао clovis1122, 29.04.2015 at 15:42

@The future mod who lock this:

Can you explain us why none of the mods who already saw the thread locked it before you?

*Inside the mod's brain*

- Because we like stalking on people's thoughts about us to then prepare our vengance if necessary

Just joking, it's obviously because they are waiting for your comments Clovis

Написао Waffel, 29.04.2015 at 08:12

90% of them were probably locked or deleted,

Mostly locked, we try to avoid deleting threads. Not fully successful in this issue, but we try.

Написао Waffel, 29.04.2015 at 08:12

Here I quote Desu:
''There has to be a player that stands above in maturity, integrity, and professionalism. Pick those up and you'll get yourself moderator. Want it? Don't ask for it, demonstrate it.''
I am not saying this is a bad thing at all. But I wonder how much of the moderators we have actually has this?
And most of all, most of the moderators we have aren't active anymore as they used to be.

Most mods have this and perma inactive Mods asked to be removed (resigned) or were demoted by Admins.

Написао Waffel, 29.04.2015 at 08:12

---

Написао Guest, 29.04.2015 at 08:39

Actually, moderators have all rights to lock threads that are about them: I've read through some of them, and they're mostly littered with logical fallacies or ad hominem that significantly reduce the productivity of any good discussion.
-snip-
In fact, do we really want those who give up their time to help us moderate to feel like they're working in a hostile environment?

IMO this is a valid point. It's about quality of critique and its intention. Is it to criticize constructively or attacking and bitching. Two different things that necessarily lead to two different reactions.

---

Написао Sun Tsu, 29.04.2015 at 09:09

It is only fair to players that when a punishment is enforced that a set procedure is followed. This must include a screenshot of the offence taken place and a required field to state the how an offence has been committed and why the punishment has been enforced.

I agree on this... as long as it is manageable. No extra paper-work that keeps us from other community activities... but SS yes... when it is not a petit-punishment like muting 30 minutes from global and stuff like that. For serious punishments I (and many other Mods) try to attach record from chat log and/or SS as proof.

---

Написао International, 29.04.2015 at 09:10

It's going to get locked before the third page. Civil discussion on the internet is rarer a substance than free money.

I hope history proves you a liar and not a prophet!

Написао International, 29.04.2015 at 09:10

We do not really need another regulations thread. We already have an AtWar Rules and Guidelines post. In order to reduce disputes claiming unfair measures, it is my belief that moderators should treat the AtWar Rules and Guidelines post as the law, deity and gospel. I should be able to read the AtWar Rules and Guidelines and have a perfect understanding of what will or will not be punished by the moderators.

We do, at least we try. Different Mods (moods?) different treatments? Possibly... just stick to rules and avoid problems.

Написао International, 29.04.2015 at 09:10

With power, wrote an author, comes responsibility. The AtWar moderators are given great powers in the chat and the forums, so I think they should make every effort to fulfill their responsibility - moderation. It's my opinion that if someone is frequently inactive for extended periods of time, that person cannot fulfill his or her responsibilities as a moderator and therefore shouldn't be given power as a moderator.

Perma inactive Mods have been removed (asked for or simply were).

---

Написао RaulPB, 29.04.2015 at 10:14

By now, I've only talked a bit with Columna, who in my opinion is lovely and approachable, but sadly, I haven't been able to play a single game with him I don't know if the moderating position is so stressful that they somehow distance from the community or if they already were a bit quiet, but for me it's sad to admit that I don't have a little bit of a friendship with any of them... specially considering that I try to mantain nice relationships with everyone I happen to meet. Pls mods, I know you're also people, ordinay people with feelings, don't feel embarassed and give me a hug!

When I started modding I stopped playing on this account and created another one to enjoy the game. Sadly my Alt now has overcome my main in SP. Does this make this account the new Alt?
Btw. you've played with me many times... you just didn't know it!

---

Написао Flaming Spaz, 29.04.2015 at 13:19

The third thing I don't like the mods as they mostly do not response except some mods like meester and acq.

Talk to me; I even took you off my enemy list. To be honest, can't remember why you were there.

---

Написао clovis1122, 29.04.2015 at 15:42

@The future mod who lock this:
Can you explain us why none of the mods who already saw the thread locked it before you?

Maybe they were afraid and waiting for my final decision?

Написао Columna Durruti, 29.04.2015 at 18:32

Maybe they were afraid and waiting for my final decision?

LOL, fun response however I was really expecting a serious answer about it...

Написао International, 29.04.2015 at 09:10

We do not really need another regulations thread. We already have an AtWar Rules and Guidelines post. In order to reduce disputes claiming unfair measures, it is my belief that moderators should treat the AtWar Rules and Guidelines post as the law, deity and gospel.

The problem -as I've told you in another thread - is that is all up to Moderator interpretation whenever a rule is broke or not. Your own understanding of the rules doesn't matter. This can go as ridiculous as you saying "I send you 911 cash" in gamechat, and getting warned because for some unknown reason that mod is from U.S and 911 reminds him of 9/11.

Aswell, if you do the same with 666 a catholic mod could get offend and actually punish you cause this is the symbol of the beast. And yes, rule #1 gives them the power to do this, doesn't matter if you understand it different.

Other type of mods you can insult them as much as you want, they will just suggest to use the ignore button.

Написао Columna Durruti, 29.04.2015 at 18:32

When I started modding I stopped playing on this account and created another one to enjoy the game. Sadly my Alt now has overcome my main in SP. Does this make this account the new Alt?
Btw. you've played with me many times... you just didn't know it!

THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Should I feel angry? Rejected? I feel betrayed the heck... now I won't be able to sleep! I'll keep thinking of which account could that possibly be! darn you and your mind games... now I wish I were a mod to check which could that alt be! No fair... I thought you trusted me, now my heart is broken into little, cat-shaped pieces.

Yeah... your alt is a mod account, lucky you.

Написао RaulPB, 29.04.2015 at 19:26

Написао Columna Durruti, 29.04.2015 at 18:32

When I started modding I stopped playing on this account and created another one to enjoy the game. Sadly my Alt now has overcome my main in SP. Does this make this account the new Alt?
Btw. you've played with me many times... you just didn't know it!

THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Should I feel angry? Rejected? I feel betrayed the heck... now I won't be able to sleep! I'll keep thinking of which account could that possibly be! darn you and your mind games... now I wish I were a mod to check which could that alt be! No fair... I thought you trusted me, now my heart is broken into little, cat-shaped pieces.

Yeah... your alt is a mod account, lucky you.

500 elo and i tell

Написао The Bastard, 29.04.2015 at 19:33

500 elo and i tell

Isn't that too much?

Написао RaulPB, 29.04.2015 at 19:26

Написао Columna Durruti, 29.04.2015 at 18:32

When I started modding I stopped playing on this account and created another one to enjoy the game. Sadly my Alt now has overcome my main in SP. Does this make this account the new Alt?
Btw. you've played with me many times... you just didn't know it!

THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Should I feel angry? Rejected? I feel betrayed the heck... now I won't be able to sleep! I'll keep thinking of which account could that possibly be! darn you and your mind games... now I wish I were a mod to check which could that alt be! No fair... I thought you trusted me, now my heart is broken into little, cat-shaped pieces.

Yeah... your alt is a mod account, lucky you.

I've also wondered ;_;. So much that I actually went to check many rank 10's. The Troll looks suspicious. Ok he actually looks legit...